Completed Overcome: Magikarp 3.3

grookies · Aug 12, 2022

Hi. I really like your game. I may have encountered a progression halting bug though, also some feedback so far:

I ended up on the outside of this room which I am assuming I should be inside. I got here after escaping the Sharpedo invested waters down a hole and then doing the maze which leads to another hole. Yes I died going straight for the hole the first time. Anyway I want to see what Relicanth is up to, but there is no way in. I am assuming I was meant to spawn inside instead of several tiles outside. Looks really cool though. I am liking the level of difficulty and the graphics and sound is really good. I will say I did not realize for a while that I didn't need to redo all the item gathering tasks every time. Scyther took me out many times but it was fun trying to bounce past. I believe I died 12 or so different ways up to this point. Dying isn't too frustrating since you seem to get a badge for everyway you die. So basically I am collecting ways to die. But also I want to continue to explore and see if there is any hope for poor Magikarp. I really appreciate that I am just thrown into the game with no tutorial and just figure things out myself. Even the description of the game is kind of mysterious which I really like. If I do end up beating this I feel like there would be a real sense of accomplishment.

AenaonDogsky · Aug 12, 2022

grookies said:
Hi. I really like your game. I may have encountered a progression halting bug though, also some feedback so far:

I ended up on the outside of this room which I am assuming I should be inside. I got here after escaping the Sharpedo invested waters down a hole and then doing the maze which leads to another hole. Yes I died going straight for the hole the first time. Anyway I want to see what Relicanth is up to, but there is no way in. I am assuming I was meant to spawn inside instead of several tiles outside. Looks really cool though. I am liking the level of difficulty and the graphics and sound is really good. I will say I did not realize for a while that I didn't need to redo all the item gathering tasks every time. Scyther took me out many times but it was fun trying to bounce past. I believe I died 12 or so different ways up to this point. Dying isn't too frustrating since you seem to get a badge for everyway you die. So basically I am collecting ways to die. But also I want to continue to explore and see if there is any hope for poor Magikarp. I really appreciate that I am just thrown into the game with no tutorial and just figure things out myself. Even the description of the game is kind of mysterious which I really like. If I do end up beating this I feel like there would be a real sense of accomplishment. View attachment 11687

Thank you, can you please check for me if your game folder version is 1.3 ? If you jumped over the tiles (instead of spawning in) then you must have been on an older version. I will go through the event just in case.

And yes, the true ending is rewarding on its own, especially when accompanied by the feeling of it being the fruit of your labor.

EDIT: Apologies I found the bug, will bump with new version when its up.

AenaonDogsky · Aug 12, 2022

grookies said:
Hi. I really like your game. I may have encountered a progression halting bug though, also some feedback so far:

I ended up on the outside of this room which I am assuming I should be inside. I got here after escaping the Sharpedo invested waters down a hole and then doing the maze which leads to another hole. Yes I died going straight for the hole the first time. Anyway I want to see what Relicanth is up to, but there is no way in. I am assuming I was meant to spawn inside instead of several tiles outside. Looks really cool though. I am liking the level of difficulty and the graphics and sound is really good. I will say I did not realize for a while that I didn't need to redo all the item gathering tasks every time. Scyther took me out many times but it was fun trying to bounce past. I believe I died 12 or so different ways up to this point. Dying isn't too frustrating since you seem to get a badge for everyway you die. So basically I am collecting ways to die. But also I want to continue to explore and see if there is any hope for poor Magikarp. I really appreciate that I am just thrown into the game with no tutorial and just figure things out myself. Even the description of the game is kind of mysterious which I really like. If I do end up beating this I feel like there would be a real sense of accomplishment.

Updated to 1.4, it's fixed now.

If you are updating, simply copy-paste over your older folder (you'll be prompted to replace the files), so that you keep your progress.

AenaonDogsky · Aug 16, 2022

Game updated to 1.6.

For anyone updating from previous versions, make sure to copy the newest folder over your older folder (you'll be prompted to replace the files), so that you keep your progress, since the game sandboxes its savefiles.

EDIT: Linux and Mac versions are up.

Armin · Aug 21, 2022

Hi! I thought I’d leave a comment after playing your game!

Not ten steps into the game and I was swallowed by a Wailord. That’s when I fully realized what I was getting myself into. Simply put, the experience was pure torture. I hated how slow and immobile Magikarp is in the beginning, especially when I’m trying to escape from its much faster predators. I hated how even the most seemingly innocuous actions like staying in an area for too long can cause you to die. I hated how the devs would place those death-causing tiles at the spots where the player is most likely to land onto them. I hated how that nice, soothing background tune can sound so grating when I’m screaming from frustration after dying 3452529 times in a row. I hated how I had to go through all those earlier maps again just because I died at a later location and there’s no way to save. Tyrantitar, Sharpedo and Scyther are among some of my all-time favorite Pokémon and this game made me hate them and curse at them more than I have ever cursed at any single Pokémon in my entire life (I’ll soon get over it though lol). I hated myself for dying to the same things over and over even though I explicitly told myself not to fall for those tricks another time. Most of all, I hated myself for continuing to play on like a masochistic idiot because my stupid pride refuses to let me give up in a game deliberately designed to make me give up.

It was a truly amazing experience, almost hauntingly beautiful. I loved this game to bits.

I loved the sepia-toned maps, the melancholic atmosphere and how masterful you were in conveying messages through imagery alone. I loved how each power-up feels so satisfying, especially after the sheer amount of pains it took me to obtain it. I loved how strong Magikarp becomes in the process; how things gradually got easier after the horrid start. Perhaps, I’ve also grown to love dying in the process – about halfway through the game I actually felt excited upon discovering a new way to die, rather than wanting to punch my monitor like usual.

Needless to say, the ending hit me like a ton of bricks. It was then I understood the point of suffering all throughout the game. Carp that leap up a waterfall become a powerful dragon (I believe that’s the inspiration for Magikarp/Gyarados’s design too!), and this entire game is just… such a perfect illustration of that legend/metaphor. When the sepia-toned world became full of color, when Gyarados dove into the waterfall with that joyful expression, I may or may not have shed a few tears >< The ending also contained the only 4 words in the game (apart from the credits), and perhaps, because of that, they had so much impact on me. (I assume that “Henry” is the name of the Magikarp?)

A suggestion (subjective, please take it with a grain of salt): I didn’t realize you could skip the chain of item-collecting once you got to the Wailmer for the first time. I wonder if it’s possible to disable the “speech bubbles” (and the appearance of the yarn event) permanently once the task is complete? This goes for the other power-up events, like the man kicking the Magikarp. Also, perhaps the fact that opening the door to Noctowl requires the item from Relicanth can be conveyed more clearly (e.g. by having Noctowl appear outside with a speech bubble rather than hiding it behind a door. But, I understand that given that it’s not actually a Noctowl, it makes sense for it to be hidden ^^)

To the team, thank you so much for making this game! I ended it with warm feelings in my heart. If Magikarp can Overcome all its trial and tribulations and emerge as a better version of itself, so can I… that’s the message I took away from this. ^^

AenaonDogsky · Aug 22, 2022

Armin said:
Hi! I thought I’d leave a comment after playing your game!

Not ten steps into the game and I was swallowed by a Wailord. That’s when I fully realized what I was getting myself into. Simply put, the experience was pure torture. I hated how slow and immobile Magikarp is in the beginning, especially when I’m trying to escape from its much faster predators. I hated how even the most seemingly innocuous actions like staying in an area for too long can cause you to die. I hated how the devs would place those death-causing tiles at the spots where the player is most likely to land onto them. I hated how that nice, soothing background tune can sound so grating when I’m screaming from frustration after dying 3452529 times in a row. I hated how I had to go through all those earlier maps again just because I died at a later location and there’s no way to save. Tyrantitar, Sharpedo and Scyther are among some of my all-time favorite Pokémon and this game made me hate them and curse at them more than I have ever cursed at any single Pokémon in my entire life (I’ll soon get over it though lol). I hated myself for dying to the same things over and over even though I explicitly told myself not to fall for those tricks another time. Most of all, I hated myself for continuing to play on like a masochistic idiot because my stupid pride refuses to let me give up in a game deliberately designed to make me give up.

It was a truly amazing experience, almost hauntingly beautiful. I loved this game to bits.

I loved the sepia-toned maps, the melancholic atmosphere and how masterful you were in conveying messages through imagery alone. I loved how each power-up feels so satisfying, especially after the sheer amount of pains it took me to obtain it. I loved how strong Magikarp becomes in the process; how things gradually got easier after the horrid start. Perhaps, I’ve also grown to love dying in the process – about halfway through the game I actually felt excited upon discovering a new way to die, rather than wanting to punch my monitor like usual.

Needless to say, the ending hit me like a ton of bricks. It was then I understood the point of suffering all throughout the game. Carp that leap up a waterfall become a powerful dragon (I believe that’s the inspiration for Magikarp/Gyarados’s design too!), and this entire game is just… such a perfect illustration of that legend/metaphor. When the sepia-toned world became full of color, when Gyarados dove into the waterfall with that joyful expression, I may or may not have shed a few tears >< The ending also contained the only 4 words in the game (apart from the credits), and perhaps, because of that, they had so much impact on me. (I assume that “Henry” is the name of the Magikarp?)

A suggestion (subjective, please take it with a grain of salt): I didn’t realize you could skip the chain of item-collecting once you got to the Wailmer for the first time. I wonder if it’s possible to disable the “speech bubbles” (and the appearance of the yarn event) permanently once the task is complete? This goes for the other power-up events, like the man kicking the Magikarp. Also, perhaps the fact that opening the door to Noctowl requires the item from Relicanth can be conveyed more clearly (e.g. by having Noctowl appear outside with a speech bubble rather than hiding it behind a door. But, I understand that given that it’s not actually a Noctowl, it makes sense for it to be hidden ^^)

To the team, thank you so much for making this game! I ended it with warm feelings in my heart. If Magikarp can Overcome all its trial and tribulations and emerge as a better version of itself, so can I… that’s the message I took away from this. ^^

Man, I'm so glad the game resonated that way with you!

I'm really grateful the powerups felt impactful! It really feels liberating being able to jump just a couple of tiles further, especially after all the karp's been through. I do think that games these days are very spammy with the amount and quality of their upgrades, to the point where it doesnt feel like it matters at all. It's overstimulating for the sake of it, and doesn't feel rewarding unless you are like 5.

Phew, I was afraid seeking all the karperishments would have been kind of a chore for some players. But the whole trick is to put yourself in the (fins?) shoes of the karp - then you will persevere.

Just like adversity in real life, the more you try the easier it all becomes - glad this got across through gameplay.

I was very afraid the ending would have been clumsy because I had so little time left and I was insanely tired. I'm happy that the emotions I felt when I first saw the crying gyarados sprite got through in cutscene form.

Yes, the chinese legend metaphor (which is also used for the public university entry examinations, which is a national exam that makes student's lives hell) is all about the monumental task of a fish climbing up a waterfall, and is the inspiration behind the og karp and gyara lore. The seemingly impossible task can be achieved through perseverance - but at the cost of great pain. But generally, it is a monumental achievement.

I made this game as a tribute to a friend of mine who's been through a lot lately. "Henry" is his name but you can interpret that as the karp's name too. I am really grateful the ending felt impactful and relatable.

I'm trying to tackle similar themes all throughout my games, but this was the first time I attempted to do it without all the word flood the other entries are known for xD Obviously I took inspiration from a lot of "silent" games, and this has made me reconsider my previous approaches.

Man the graphics & ideas team did an AMAZING work, especially Ole who drew the "karperishments". Half the game's value is in its visuals. Sadly I informed them too late into the deadline about the project, cause I myself wasnt sure I'd enter, but they pulled through. They also helped with many great ideas.

DERP! The icon idea... should have been implemented sooner! Is it allowed to "fix" this or is it not considered a bugfix? If so, I'll just fix it after the judging period, thanks for the idea. As for the door, I don't know - I was thinking to disallow the player from getting to the swamp in the first place so they don't suffer unnecessarily. Tell me what you think about that.

And yes, that was indeed the message - actually you nailed almost all of the game's meanings. There's a few more, though!
We also have a couple more gameplay-related ideas for post-judging.

Thanks for playing the game!

grookies · Aug 24, 2022

Hi. I am back. I just completed the game so I might as well drop the rest of my feedback.

So I ended up beating the game on the 1.4 version after I got stuck in the 1.3 version just before Relicanth. What ended up happening is after obtaining the item from Relicanth I was stuck again. I honestly thought there was some kind of tile error not letting me hop up into the swamp part of the map. I really did not want to have to use the map provided but I did. I have to say that I had spammed about every button on my keyboard at the human cornering that Magikarp in the city way back when I first encountered them and nothing happened. So I was pretty confused when there was supposed to be an upgrade there. I ended up just flopping all over the city in a blind rage and accidently jumped into the human. And finally got the first upgrade. That was not great in my opinion. Although you could definitely argue that I am an idiot. Speaking of me being potentially an idiot, I will say the map did help me understand what the different areas were, as without colors everything just looks like ground and rocks to me otherwise. Not to knock the style or anything. I get there was a Simplicity theme and also the lack of color added to the feel of the game and made the ending that much better. I just wonder how the whole game may have looked in color. The rest of the game went pretty well. Getting past the Octillery was challenging at times. Finally overcoming that Pidgeot felt great. I will say that I had suspected collecting all the ways to die would do something, but I was still trying to avoid dying for the most part. So when I got to the end and still had 6 ways left to die I almost felt like giving up again. I kind of wish there was an ending that didn't involve dying in everyway.

So I took a break from the game for bit. But one day I'd think of couple more ways to die and another I'd find another I had missed. Eventually down to one. And well I had to open the guide. 20 minutes on land. I had played essentially the whole game without ever triggering this. Probably never even close. It never takes more than a few minutes to die. I personally would lower it to 10 or even 5 minutes. Maybe at 5 minutes there could have been a chance of me triggering it without having to look it up. Perhaps the idea was that you would be searching for ages for something in the game to trigger this, but doing that on land without ever dying within that time seems like something that would never happen.

As far as the ending it was wonderful getting that shot of color and the Gyarados sprite looked excellent. I didn't entirely understand Noctowl turning into Ho-Oh but I believe Ho-Oh is good luck. So maybe it is saying that for all the Magikarp that perish there is a lucky one. Not sure if I should interpret it as the luckiest Magikarp of a bunch or something along the lines of survival of the fittest. To me it seems like a rare lucky one. I will say before even downloading the game I figured evolving into Gyarados and ending at a waterfall were very much expected but I still wasn't disappointed or anything. I didn't uh cry at the ending but it was nice for sure. Still managed to be a wow moment nonetheless. I think for me it was more about the journey than the destination though. The world was pretty fun and diverse and had some memorable challenges. Facing adversity and persevering was really what I got out of it.

I hope my criticism doesn't come off too harsh or anything, some is really just nitpicking and my personal preference. And some is likely me just being an idiot lol. There was some "annoying" parts for me but really those are just more things to overcome. Being a Magikarp isn't easy. I didn't want to repeat myself from my first post but all the pros mentioned there still apply. I think having a game with no dialogue is a great idea and even let's people of any language or no language at all potentially enjoy this work of art.

Thank you for providing this game experience, very well done. To produce this within the time constraint and even doing a great job incorporating the optional theme is really impressive. Also the gameplay is different from a standard Pokémon game, which is always interesting and further showcases your creativity. So overall congrats on a successful jam :)

AenaonDogsky · Aug 24, 2022

grookies said:
Hi. I am back. I just completed the game so I might as well drop the rest of my feedback.

So I ended up beating the game on the 1.4 version after I got stuck in the 1.3 version just before Relicanth. What ended up happening is after obtaining the item from Relicanth I was stuck again. I honestly thought there was some kind of tile error not letting me hop up into the swamp part of the map. I really did not want to have to use the map provided but I did. I have to say that I had spammed about every button on my keyboard at the human cornering that Magikarp in the city way back when I first encountered them and nothing happened. So I was pretty confused when there was supposed to be an upgrade there. I ended up just flopping all over the city in a blind rage and accidently jumped into the human. And finally got the first upgrade. That was not great in my opinion. Although you could definitely argue that I am an idiot. Speaking of me being potentially an idiot, I will say the map did help me understand what the different areas were, as without colors everything just looks like ground and rocks to me otherwise. Not to knock the style or anything. I get there was a Simplicity theme and also the lack of color added to the feel of the game and made the ending that much better. I just wonder how the whole game may have looked in color. The rest of the game went pretty well. Getting past the Octillery was challenging at times. Finally overcoming that Pidgeot felt great. I will say that I had suspected collecting all the ways to die would do something, but I was still trying to avoid dying for the most part. So when I got to the end and still had 6 ways left to die I almost felt like giving up again. I kind of wish there was an ending that didn't involve dying in everyway.

So I took a break from the game for bit. But one day I'd think of couple more ways to die and another I'd find another I had missed. Eventually down to one. And well I had to open the guide. 20 minutes on land. I had played essentially the whole game without ever triggering this. Probably never even close. It never takes more than a few minutes to die. I personally would lower it to 10 or even 5 minutes. Maybe at 5 minutes there could have been a chance of me triggering it without having to look it up. Perhaps the idea was that you would be searching for ages for something in the game to trigger this, but doing that on land without ever dying within that time seems like something that would never happen.

As far as the ending it was wonderful getting that shot of color and the Gyarados sprite looked excellent. I didn't entirely understand Noctowl turning into Ho-Oh but I believe Ho-Oh is good luck. So maybe it is saying that for all the Magikarp that perish there is a lucky one. Not sure if I should interpret it as the luckiest Magikarp of a bunch or something along the lines of survival of the fittest. To me it seems like a rare lucky one. I will say before even downloading the game I figured evolving into Gyarados and ending at a waterfall were very much expected but I still wasn't disappointed or anything. I didn't uh cry at the ending but it was nice for sure. Still managed to be a wow moment nonetheless. I think for me it was more about the journey than the destination though. The world was pretty fun and diverse and had some memorable challenges. Facing adversity and persevering was really what I got out of it.

I hope my criticism doesn't come off too harsh or anything, some is really just nitpicking and my personal preference. And some is likely me just being an idiot lol. There was some "annoying" parts for me but really those are just more things to overcome. Being a Magikarp isn't easy. I didn't want to repeat myself from my first post but all the pros mentioned there still apply. I think having a game with no dialogue is a great idea and even let's people of any language or no language at all potentially enjoy this work of art.

Thank you for providing this game experience, very well done. To produce this within the time constraint and even doing a great job incorporating the optional theme is really impressive. Also the gameplay is different from a standard Pokémon game, which is always interesting and further showcases your creativity. So overall congrats on a successful jam :)

Thanks a lot for your review!

Man, that relicanth bug was pure hell, I am so sorry! The game was made within a veeeery short time. Anyways...

Oh, I thought people would try jumping (aside from the interaction button) for these reasons: it's the only thing you can do besides interacting, a Magikarp can't really "talk" to humans, and I thought most people would react with trying to push the guy away seeing as he had the poor karp cornered. I can definitely make this work with the interact button too. Don't beat yourself over it, it's 99% the designer's fault with these, because the expectations for an action have to be made clear in the first few stages of the game.

You can look at the tilesets folder to get an idea about how the game would have looked like without the sepia filter.

The 20min thing was a bug, it prevented people from getting to the ending. It's been fixed on 1.6.

Ah, I barely had any time to give a more of a "backstory" or lore presentation to Noctowl I guess, but the general idea here is that, Ho-Oh symbolizes rebirth (something that is metaphorically implied to happen after one's failures) and Noctowl is a personification of wisdom. That is, it is wise to never let go and, that, sometimes it's necessary to fail in all sorts of ways in order to succeed. Ho-Oh also symbolizes the assistance of something greater than the karp, in many ways, and thus it presents itself as a more "equal" to the karp being, to get the wisdom across at first. Also, the upgrade you get from it is the move "Flail" which not only is befitting thematically, it makes sense for a Karp to be able to fend off a predator with such a move.

No, luck wasn't a theme at all, it was the opposite! It's that with assistance and perseverance, a karp may reach the waterfall. But assistance also goes both ways: as magikarp becomes a better version of itself, it helps other karps and draws from their strength in the form of better jumping. This is a form of real progress.

The game is more enjoyable in 1.6 now that the bugs have been taken care of. Any other addition/alteration can only be done post-judging period as you know, so I'm going over some of the changes when the time comes.

Finally, the review isn't negative in the slightest (also what exactly is a negative review? If you think about it, feedback can only end up being positive) so no need to apologize lmao!

Thanks for playing!

Armin · Aug 24, 2022

AenaonDogsky said:
As for the door, I don't know - I was thinking to disallow the player from getting to the swamp in the first place so they don't suffer unnecessarily.

Aww, come on! Don't you dare go soft on the player, now!
I think travelling all the way to the end of the swamp to find a dead end is okay (I maintain that devs can be evil from time to time hehehe), just that it'll be nice to have a little indication that something is needed to open that door. But honestly, that's just my two cents worth~ ^^

grookies · Aug 24, 2022

Just some response to my feedbacks feedback :P

Thanks for clarifying. Perseverance and assistance both ways are really all anyone needs in life now that I think about it. Those are excellent themes to live by. I am also glad to hear your views on feedback. I just don't want to end up accidently insulting someone after they put so many hours of work into something. Just my "better be safe than sorry" attitude. I'm glad I now understand the whole Noctowl/Ho-Oh/Flail part of the story. I definitely hold the story in a higher regard now. Great job.

Jerry’s Smelly Servant · Aug 28, 2022

You’ve done it again Dusky, made a game that makes me want to smash my laptop, but the game itself was amazing. Something about games that are just hard and boring are some of the best.

NocTurn · Aug 29, 2022

Hello! I took a glance over this and didn't get to the 'end', but I got roughly 1/3rd of the endings. I'm not much of a 'reactionary difficulty' kind of guy so the game wasn't my speed personally, but it's a fun little romp and it's clear a lot of thought was put into the atmosphere. I appreciate that!

Pros:

Really nice atmosphere
Using Ranger sprites instead of classic Pokemon OWs was a nice change of pace
Map design is generally fun to navigate
Platforming is a new genre to Pokemon, the addition of a jump button adds a lot

Cons:

I found the menus a bit confusing, I don't really understand what the egg button even does in the menu and the controls flashed too quick on that title screen for me to even read them fully. I also didn't realize that the circle with an arrow was the esc key.
On repeat instances of the same ending I would appreciate a way to skip the cutscene and dramatic plaque reveal. This is especially egregious in the repeated attempt segments like Pidgeotto and Scyther
The diagonal jumping was really hard to input correctly, I found myself slamming against islands at a few points trying to press the keys juuuuuuust right

Only major glitch I had was that at certain points I can jump between land and water, specifically with diagonal jumps, to create an effect in which my walking speed is enhanced on land and I can no longer jump. Going back into the water fixes this, but I thought it was worth noting. I could also jump towards the water sometimes and presumably skip the swimming trigger so that I could jump to a few outer islands that probably weren't intended to be reachable.

Good work, I'm excited to see what you do next jam!

AenaonDogsky · Aug 29, 2022

NocTurn said:
Hello! I took a glance over this and didn't get to the 'end', but I got roughly 1/3rd of the endings. I'm not much of a 'reactionary difficulty' kind of guy so the game wasn't my speed personally, but it's a fun little romp and it's clear a lot of thought was put into the atmosphere. I appreciate that!

Pros:

Really nice atmosphere

Using Ranger sprites instead of classic Pokemon OWs was a nice change of pace

Map design is generally fun to navigate

Platforming is a new genre to Pokemon, the addition of a jump button adds a lot

Cons:

I found the menus a bit confusing, I don't really understand what the egg button even does in the menu and the controls flashed too quick on that title screen for me to even read them fully. I also didn't realize that the circle with an arrow was the esc key.

On repeat instances of the same ending I would appreciate a way to skip the cutscene and dramatic plaque reveal. This is especially egregious in the repeated attempt segments like Pidgeotto and Scyther

The diagonal jumping was really hard to input correctly, I found myself slamming against islands at a few points trying to press the keys juuuuuuust right

Only major glitch I had was that at certain points I can jump between land and water, specifically with diagonal jumps, to create an effect in which my walking speed is enhanced on land and I can no longer jump. Going back into the water fixes this, but I thought it was worth noting. I could also jump towards the water sometimes and presumably skip the swimming trigger so that I could jump to a few outer islands that probably weren't intended to be reachable.

Good work, I'm excited to see what you do next jam!

Hey how've you been doing?

Are you on 1.6?

Derp, and I thought the button splash stayed on screen for too long! (I'll see if I can make it wait for input before disappearing)
Yeah, the circle is the symbol for the ESC key, but presenting it with text would be immersion-breaking... controls are mentioned in the readme though!
The option to skip "karperishments" you already got, will be included in post-jam update. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to implement that.
Diagonal jumping, as mentioned in the readme, is not expected at any point - some people can pull it off, and it's also setup dependent, so I desigend everything with straight jumping in mind, only.

Yeah, water transition needs a different implementation (it's done with regions) to go around the problem, but all the areas are self-contained, and it won't carry across maps. This is also mentioned in the readme!

It's a roguelite so your jumping upgrades and the last two items in the trading sequence will be saved, so I'd urge you to give it another go - after all that's the point of the game!

Tomix9tomix · Aug 30, 2022

After a lot of sweat and tears (metaphorical tears) I have beaten the game!

This game was really cool, and I like how hard the message is driven home. Perseverance, keep trying, and at the end of it you'll come out as something stronger and more beautiful. It's really nice when a game has a clear message to tell. And on the topic of the message, I found the mention of "Henry" very nice, it feels very personal and brings the game back into reality, which gave me some feelings.

Graphically the game is amazing, not really much else to say, nice and diverse among other fangames as it goes with its own unique style, and the washed out pallet just further adds more character to the game. Just nice, good stuff.

Onto the gameplay, I think designing the gameplay of this game is an incredibly hard task with the limits you've set yourself. 0 dialogue is a good and nice choice, I liked it, however it does make some things really unclear and means that the only way you can tell the player something, is through the environment, which is hard. The game is designed to be frustrating, and for a lot of the game it works in a good way, where whenever something bad happens, it feels like your fault. But there are a few point which don't feel too fair.

-I would've found the upgrade and item system very confusing without people in chat explaining it to me. It's the same style icon that appears for items, and upgrades, and then some of those items reset on death but some are permanent without any sign of which is which. I understand with foresight that the ocarina is an exception to the fact that items are supposed to reset on death, due to how punishing it would be to expect the player to repeat that segment, but playing the game you have no idea whether you need to go back and get the ocarina again, and there is no way to check except going through the long dive section again.
-The jumping feels quite hard to read, especially for diagonal jumping once you're a couple upgrades in. You can't really figure out where you will land without just trying, but a lot of the time, "just trying" will land you in a deadly sandpit.
-To reach the end of the journey, and get your reward for persevering, you must get every death first. And I think that makes sense and is fair, as you go through the game you understand what will kill you, and so you can figure out where to unlock these deaths. However, if a death is not like this, and is easy to miss completely, it locks out the player from beating the game without looking up the answer. 2 of them I think are okay-ish, they are a bit hidden but I did find them without trouble, I just worry that if a player misses them, they will not be able to think back and figure out what it was that they missed. These are the ariados one and the wailord one. The one that I think is too harsh, and makes this game very hard to complete without a guide is the waiting 6 minutes one. It makes for a nice secret, and I like that it is a possible death, but it does not feel right that the ending, not just a secret ending but the actual ending, is locked behind this very hard to find secret.

That probably sounds negative, but those were just very specific qualms of mine. Otherwise I think the "challenging" and "rage inducing" aspect of the game was very well done. When you died you knew it was your fault, and you could improve and get further next time, so that felt very nice and fun. It's very hard to balance these sorts of rage games to keep them entertaining to play, but I think you did a good job!

Thank you for making this game, it was a really nice and unique experience!

[\SPOILER]

AenaonDogsky · Aug 30, 2022

Tomix9tomix said:
After a lot of sweat and tears (metaphorical tears) I have beaten the game!

[\SPOILER]

Thanks a lot, watched the vod when I got back, so I have your live hands-on review in mind when I'm reading this, too.

- So here's what happened with the item sequence: in the beginning, I thought dying to glameow would have been very difficult if the player got the yarn ball first, then gave it to glameow and, for the rest of the game, simply ignored glameow. At that point I thought I'd better leave the sequence as is, barring the last 2 items. Yes, it does break consistency which is something especially important in this type of game but I ran out of time xD I think fixing something like that is not allowed during the judging period, right? Would you suggest permanence of all items?

Also, I can't display items on the karperismhent scene cause the game lags a lot exactly when more than 22 icons are displayed! It's all done via eventing.

There is no real diagonal jumping. The entire game is made with straight jumping in mind - diagonal isn't disallowed, and it's there for chesse/speedrunning reasons. You will die more if you attempt flashy jumps! Some people can't pull them off easily, and I didn't want to make the game inaccessible - hard yes, but inaccessible to some people, no. But I wouldn't like to deprive those who can, of this ability.

Oh, some people told me that the "volcano temperature", and "sea depths currents" deaths were the hardest to get. But not wailord! Those two deaths could be changed to more mon-karperishments, I think. As far as the dehydration death is concerned, I thought hard about it but I really wanted to have this kind of realistic karperishment. I mean, it's a fish, and it has to scale a mountain lmao. Anyways I fully understand the complaints about this one, do you have any suggestions? How it is right now - 6-7 minutes seems to be the sweet spot - in fact, you almost died of dehydration in the swamp area... but then that diagonal jump! Also it used to be 20 minutes before, but that truly prevented people from progressing and I had to cut it down to 7 mins. I hadn't realized how frequently players would die, I thought most people would have been super-careful after the first few deaths.

I'm glad you liked those specifically presented parts! I made the game for a friend who was struggling, and I wanted to convey the struggle in game form without making it impossible to beat. Therefore... rogue-lite instead of roguelike. The game uses PIXI filters instead of different tilesets, hence rays and oldfilm graphical manipulation. I really hope we could get essentials to MV or MZ some day. Oh well. Anyways, I felt very emotional when I made the last cutscene, but part of it was the sleepless coffee backed crunch :')

Those moments were you got frustrated hurt a bit, but, once I saw your progress, especially the octillery part... I dont know if you have noticed it (if you go back at your attempts in the VOD, you will), but once the unfamiliarity went away, you aced the octillery part (barring the times where you hesitated) and this made me very happy! It was exactly what I wanted to see and convey!

It's quite fast and easy to get through the game once you've gotten it down - exactly as in real life. But also, when it comes to gaming - at one point you sold yourself short on your "gaming" abilities, but the very next moment your magikarp movement was much more precise. See where I'm getting with this? My other games examine the same topics but in textual form (a bit too... um, too textual sometimes, but certain overcome:magikarp concepts thematically and in gameplay, apply to them too)

BTW what is that tradition vs practicality game you made? Im very interested in those themes. You also talked about a game you made about grief... which you said didn't have any "deeper" dimension? I think it's impossible for a game using that theme not to have a deeper meaning. Perhaps you are selling yourself short here too?

Again, thank you so much for playing the game! I don't know what I'm allowed to change right now, but I have to gather as much feedback as I can first, anwyway, so we'll see! I promised myself I'd play all jam games this jam but I've been short on time, I hope I can get back to it soon! See ya!

Tomix9tomix · Aug 31, 2022

Replying to specific points:

AenaonDogsky said:
So here's what happened with the item sequence: in the beginning, I thought dying to glameow would have been very difficult if the player got the yarn ball first, then gave it to glameow and, for the rest of the game, simply ignored glameow. At that point I thought I'd better leave the sequence as is, barring the last 2 items. Yes, it does break consistency which is something especially important in this type of game but I ran out of time xD I think fixing something like that is not allowed during the judging period, right? Would you suggest permanence of all items?

Just to clarify, I don't really think you should change anything too much, you've made your game jam game and it is a complete package. I just wanted to highlight some parts of the design that felt a bit iffy and to reflect on in the future. Personally for the items I think it depends on what you're going for, I personally would probably say to make all items permanent, but another solution would be potentially having it so when you died with a temporary item, you see the icon fly out and off screen upon death, signifying that you lost it.

Another another solution would be designing the game so the first item in the chain appears close to where you spawn, so upon death and restart you see that the item has gone back to where it originally was, signifying that you have to recollect the items. But that would still leave the problem of the player potentially assuming that the ocarina is temporary too then. But yeah, just things to think about.

AenaonDogsky said:
Oh, some people told me that the "volcano temperature", and "sea depths currents" deaths were the hardest to get. But not wailord! Those two deaths could be changed to more mon-karperishments, I think. As far as the dehydration death is concerned, I thought hard about it but I really wanted to have this kind of realistic karperishment. I mean, it's a fish, and it has to scale a mountain lmao. Anyways I fully understand the complaints about this one, do you have any suggestions? How it is right now - 6-7 minutes seems to be the sweet spot - in fact, you almost died of dehydration in the swamp area... but then that diagonal jump! Also it used to be 20 minutes before, but that truly prevented people from progressing and I had to cut it down to 7 mins. I hadn't realized how frequently players would die, I thought most people would have been super-careful after the first few deaths.

I think 7 minutes is a good middle ground, if it was anything less the player would feel rushed for time, and it would mess with their ability to take hard sections slowly, which would cross the border to unfair imo. And I do think that dying by dehydration is a nice touch and little secret, my problem with it more has to do with how it conflicts with the design of achieving the ending of the game. And again, this isn't something I think you should change, but just a reflection on general design, and I think I'm going to tangent a fair bit here and just talk about general design.

This game is a really nice complete package, and it tells a really nice story, however that package is only complete upon reaching the ending. Which in this case is locked behind some rather hard to find deaths, that I feel like may as well be classified as secrets, because finding them almost feels like finding a secret easter egg. I understand that at any point the player can decide "I've had my fun, those were some cool deaths I got" and put the game down, but doing that before reaching any proper ending at all leaves an incomplete feeling. And this is really entering personal opinion territory, but I find locking the only conclusion to this game behind 100%, when 100% includes secrets, quite harsh.

Elle makes games that have a lot of secrets, and a lot of the time they are really quite obscure, it is fair to say that most players are not going to encounter them. And I think that's cool, I like that, like how I like the dehydration ending. However Elle's games can still reach an ending without finding all the secrets and 100%ing it. The secrets add to the game, and sometimes even the story, however a satisfactory conclusion can still be reached without finding the secrets.

I feel like this sort of game would benefit from something like that, and there are a few ways to do it, maybe simply reaching the top gives you an ending, but with 100% you see the noctowl evolve too, or you get the added "Henry" message. Or maybe the door to the ending only has 15 circles, requiring only 15 deaths, being a bit more lenient towards the player.

But yeah I'm injecting my own ideas a bit much here, but hopefully my point comes across clearly. And just to reitterate, THE GAME IS FUN!!!! I'm not saying you have to change these things for the game to be fun, it's just things that I think are worth reflecting on for the future.

AenaonDogsky said:
Those moments were you got frustrated hurt a bit, but, once I saw your progress, especially the octillery part... I dont know if you have noticed it (if you go back at your attempts in the VOD, you will), but once the unfamiliarity went away, you aced the octillery part (barring the times where you hesitated) and this made me very happy! It was exactly what I wanted to see and convey!

It's quite fast and easy to get through the game once you've gotten it down - exactly as in real life. But also, when it comes to gaming - at one point you sold yourself short on your "gaming" abilities, but the very next moment your magikarp movement was much more precise. See where I'm getting with this? My other games examine the same topics but in textual form (a bit too... um, too textual sometimes, but certain overcome:magikarp concepts thematically and in gameplay, apply to them too)

Yeah! I think this is really the strongest part of the game! The challenge feels fair and you really do learn and OVERCOME (hehe). The challenges are very learnable, and that makes for the best kind of game. I know I felt frustrated, but please know that for 99% of that, it wasn't at the game but at myself. I know it must kinda hurt to watch someone being frustrated while playing the game you made, but I assure you I was having a great time. It also made for some funny as hell moments.

AenaonDogsky said:
BTW what is that tradition vs practicality game you made? Im very interested in those themes. You also talked about a game you made about grief... which you said didn't have any "deeper" dimension? I think it's impossible for a game using that theme not to have a deeper meaning. Perhaps you are selling yourself short here too?

aaaaaa I'm very hesistant to say "play these games" because the story is by far not the best in these games. And the themes are not really touched on enough to be meaningful imo. But the one that deals with tradition is "Gratia" and the one that touches on "grief" is Azume. Honestly though, if you want to experience the themes of Azume just watch Dr Strange Multiverse of Madness haha, there is a lot in common.

AenaonDogsky · Aug 31, 2022

Tomix9tomix said:
Replying to specific points:

Oh, I see. I'm curious about certain things though (also following up tangent with tangent xD):

I will definitely proceed with adding item permanence it's been flying around as a suggestion in general, and I wasn't sure about it myself when I was making it anyway, so there wasn't any thematic importance or significance in having it stick around in gameplay terms.

I try to find the best possible balance point between adaptation to feedback and original intention, so I usually change stuff around a lot, till the end result is satisfying, so I'll definitely introduce those changes.

Man, that "close to starting area" yarn ball placement is brilliant - not only does it make the whole thing faster, but it introduces the possibility of trading in a tutorialized manner too. That is, even regardless of the state of permanence of items!

So, here's the thing I'm most curious about, could you elaborate a bit on why you consider the dehydration karp a secret? I never intended any of the karperishments to be secrets, and my single reasoning behind them conceptually was "find ways to derp that make both realistic to the setting/world/lore and gameplay sense". I understand that modern game design is a great deal more "in your face" with establishing both mechanic and progress expectations (the first is much better nowadays, as mechanics should generally be clearly and gradually introduced to the point where almost all expectations are consistent - but the latter, I think, deprives the player of approaching the game with their own powers, rather than with what the game provides for them.

This might be a remnant of old gaming habits, but I do believe that, when playing games, the most engaging approach to be adopted by players would be: "how can I achieve this? What are these possibilities? Where can I go from here? What would happen if X? What would an in-game response be in X circumstances?" In any case, I wouldn't want the dehydration karp to be that obscure, so I'll have to wait for more feedback for this one. If a degree of obscurity hinders the end purpose then that's definitely bad!

Regarding the ending: I don't believe that, especially in this sort of game, a "better" ending, or a true ending would be good. People have much less free time these days (paradoxically, only if it's not for MMOs and Gacha games, but those classify as addictions anyway :P ) and to lock content behind a certain amount obscurity or to demand an amount of extra time invested is not something I'd get behind. Granted, I loved the secret extra and true ending stuff when I was a teenager, but that also came with huge amounts of free time. I am also not a fan of gameplay enhancements or additions being driven by amount and degree of secrets, or obscurity, unless it's baked in in the game in a way that the setting expects you to.

Another reason this game shouldn't have an "enhanced" ending, or anything of the sort, is that to require more effort from the player when the entire game demands effort, but also, when effort is, in a sense, the purpose of the game, would just be way too much. Not to mention it'd feel thematically dishonest. You are overcoming who you are, and this is exactly who you are - to require less karps, whose number would change the ending, would feel more like a reward for doing your maximum/ X amount of effort, and not a reward for overcoming your limitations. I understand this might drive some players away, but even the genre of the game is in itself a limiting factor, so it's not something I'd take into consideration for this particular game.

But there's also another thematic reason - Ho-Oh seems to expect the totality of failures... or in real terms, you are in a sense the totality of your failures, because those comprise (necessary) experiences. But, sometimes you have to hit that rock-bottom (and climb out of it) to truly "evolve". Instead of treating every additional failure as an additional negative thing, it's only when the weight you are carrying has reached its peak, that can truly overcome your old self. This is one of the instances where I'd prefer to stick to themes having prominence and control over the gameplay. Also, to require the "full" package to get to the end serves two purposes: 1) clarity on where the ending is, and that it's the only ending, 2) clarity about the purpose of the game.

Themes and gameplay design tangents aside, here's what I can and will change:
1. Item permanence on
2. Yarn ball early placement
3. Substitution of the temperature, and hydration ending and/ or removal of number of endings (not required endings, but all endings). But I have to wait for more general-audience feedback on this!

Oh yeah I could tell you were having a good time besides the frustration, haha. It's expected of the genre. And the funniest moments were the accidental "sand" (lava) deaths and the swamp deaths, but also those EXTREMELY precise "land on scyther's embrace after jumping" moments xD

I still think you are selling yourself short on your games considering design awareness, but the execution of themes in writing is by no means an easy thing, and most of the times games deliver it through gameplay anyway, so I doubt anyone would come in with expectations of story grandeur, that's for any game btw. I'll give 'em a try as soon as I can, jams have gotten so big now, I can hardly find the time to play through the games lmao. Let alone older entries. Will be back with reviews, though!

KennyCatches · Nov 1, 2022

Hi there! I played this game a while ago and thought it was really interesting and well-executed.

In my opinion, this jam game used the "simplicity" theme the best. The minimalistic UI, simple colour palette, subtle music, and zero dialogue...it had a very calming atmosphere. But then, I quickly realised how rage-inducing the game was!
The achievement guide and the map were very very useful.
It was a lot of fun exploring the world, especially since it was open world.
I loved the piano music. It fit the vibe of the game very well. (I can still hear the death sound ringing in my ears, though... )
The upgrades definitely felt fulfilling and rewarding, especially the jump upgrades. I also loved the feeling of unlocking a new area.
You captured the feeling of being a Magikarp. It was great seeing the ending too.
Good tileset choices!

Here are some nitpicks:

Unfortunately, the game's simplicity made it hard to tell what was happening. At first, I had no idea what the achievement circles were. I also didn't know what interacting with the Magikarp did. It was also hard to tell if the powers were permanent or temporary. But as Tomix said, it's definitely hard with zero dialogue!
I thought the Sharpedo maze was the most frustrating part. Mainly because the Sharpedos were very hard to dodge, and sometimes I would collide with them before I could even see them. The Lanturns were helpful sometimes, but they also made the Sharpedos even harder to run past.
The Pidgeotto part wasn't very well communicated. I felt like it was a little pointless letting the player try to outrun the Pidgeotto if you couldn't leave the map anyway. It was also hard to figure out that you needed flail to overcome it.
I'm not a big fan of the timer achievements. However, I did play the first version with the 20-minute achievement. So, that wasn't fun haha.

Despite the criticisms, the game was still very enjoyable. I could feel the struggles of being a Magikarp, and all those frustrating deaths made the rewards very satisfying. A very unique game for sure, I appreciate it when fangame creators take risks and try something different! Good job!

AenaonDogsky · Nov 1, 2022

KennyCatches said:
Hi there! I played this game a while ago and thought it was really interesting and well-executed.

In my opinion, this jam game used the "simplicity" theme the best. The minimalistic UI, simple colour palette, subtle music, and zero dialogue...it had a very calming atmosphere. But then, I quickly realised how rage-inducing the game was!

The achievement guide and the map were very very useful.

It was a lot of fun exploring the world, especially since it was open world.

I loved the piano music. It fit the vibe of the game very well. (I can still hear the death sound ringing in my ears, though... )

The upgrades definitely felt fulfilling and rewarding, especially the jump upgrades. I also loved the feeling of unlocking a new area.

You captured the feeling of being a Magikarp. It was great seeing the ending too.

Good tileset choices!

Here are some nitpicks:

Unfortunately, the game's simplicity made it hard to tell what was happening. At first, I had no idea what the achievement circles were. I also didn't know what interacting with the Magikarp did. It was also hard to tell if the powers were permanent or temporary. But as Tomix said, it's definitely hard with zero dialogue!

I thought the Sharpedo maze was the most frustrating part. Mainly because the Sharpedos were very hard to dodge, and sometimes I would collide with them before I could even see them. The Lanturns were helpful sometimes, but they also made the Sharpedos even harder to run past.

The Pidgeotto part wasn't very well communicated. I felt like it was a little pointless letting the player try to outrun the Pidgeotto if you couldn't leave the map anyway. It was also hard to figure out that you needed flail to overcome it.

I'm not a big fan of the timer achievements. However, I did play the first version with the 20-minute achievement. So, that wasn't fun haha.

Despite the criticisms, the game was still very enjoyable. I could feel the struggles of being a Magikarp, and all those frustrating deaths made the rewards very satisfying. A very unique game for sure, I appreciate it when fangame creators take risks and try something different! Good job!

Thanks a lot! The theme was the first thing I had in mind, as in my previous entry with "Rejuvenation"!
Sadly I had very little time to make it (I don't like this as an excuse but it was really tight this time around)
I will address the above as follows:

1) I will adjust the first Magikarp event to automatically grant you the power. This will at least make subsequent interactivity with the other two Magikarp better communicable
2) The Pidgeotto part wasn't easy to figure out eventing wise with the setup I originally had in mind, I'll remove the repeatable cutscene (so it will only show once) and will probably go the non-immersive route of random "blockades" appearing on each exit

and as it follows from previous feedback:

3) Item permanence will apply to all items
4) Yarn ball will be placed early on, and closer to spawn
5) Will split volcanic and underwater areas into two transferrable areas - volcanic area with tyrannitar and lava deaths, and volcanic area with heat death, underwater area with sharpedos, and underwater area with depth death (will be changed into whirlpool deaths, as there's no need for another timer-based death). These four areas will be accessible independently.

If anyone has any further suggestions, please let me know.

Completed Overcome: Magikarp 3.3

grookies

Wanna cookie?

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos

Armin

☆★★☆

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos

grookies

Wanna cookie?

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos

Armin

☆★★☆

grookies

Wanna cookie?

Jerry’s Smelly Servant

Rookie

NocTurn

Hoothoot enthusiast

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos

Tomix9tomix

The beetle is waking up

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos

Tomix9tomix

The beetle is waking up

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos

KennyCatches

can he catch his?

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos