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Graphic HGSS Sea Tileset feedback

This thread's author wants feedback on a sprite or other graphical art. Be constructive.

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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Aug 22, 2020
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Hello there guys. Today I get out of my comfort zone and tried to make some HGSS style tiles. Since I couldn't find a way to make the default sea as seen (pun not intended) in HGSS, I've decided to make my own. The only problem is, the motion wasn't the same as it looked in Aesprite, so I figured, why don't share with people and see if they like it? So here it is the end results:


ADSm1mS.gif

The Autotile used

O33otkd.gif


The end result in RPGMXP

So, what do you guys think? It just me or the water animation is way broken in RPGMXP?
 
Upvote 0

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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A little broken but it looks amazing!
I see. I don't know why it is like it though. I've tried to make the animation as smooth as it was when I make it in Aesprite, but doubling the frames or by cutting it off in half, but nothing I've tried seemed to properly worked when it runed in RPGMXP.

Do you have any idea how could I make it more fluid? Because I did like it too, but I still think I could make something to make the movement more... Believable
 

AenaonDogsky

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I see. I don't know why it is like it though. I've tried to make the animation as smooth as it was when I make it in Aesprite, but doubling the frames or by cutting it off in half, but nothing I've tried seemed to properly worked when it runed in RPGMXP.

Do you have any idea how could I make it more fluid? Because I did like it too, but I still think I could make something to make the movement more... Believable
Hmm, is the autotile animation you showed right before the ingame screenshots, working as intended? If yes, try going into RMXP scripts and changing this line in the "RGSS2Compatibility" script, "Graphics.frame_rate = 60" from "30".

Then take a look at it again.
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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Posts
133
Hmm, is the autotile animation you showed right before the ingame screenshots, working as intended? If yes, try going into RMXP scripts and changing this line in the "RGSS2Compatibility" script, "Graphics.frame_rate = 60" from "30".

Then take a look at it again.

Yes, it is. I'll try it later, whenever I get a chance.

Btw, I love your mini gamemaking tutorial on designing characters portraits. I'm planning to share what I got when I'm done with my character portrait
 

AenaonDogsky

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Yes, it is. I'll try it later, whenever I get a chance.

Btw, I love your mini gamemaking tutorial on designing characters portraits. I'm planning to share what I got when I'm done with my character portrait
Glad you found it helpful, can't wait to see your work!

So here's what might be possibly happening with the animation, although I don't have a clear idea yet: either the frametime between frames is not working well, or if RGSS 2 has been set to 30 fps (default), the animation is playing at half speed ingame. You can also try reducing the frametime by half, and testing it at 30, or keeping it as is and testing it at 60. Try both I'd say
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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Joined
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Glad you found it helpful, can't wait to see your work!

So here's what might be possibly happening with the animation, although I don't have a clear idea yet: either the frametime between frames is not working well, or if RGSS 2 has been set to 30 fps (default), the animation is playing at half speed ingame. You can also try reducing the frametime by half, and testing it at 30, or keeping it as is and testing it at 60. Try both I'd say

Yeah, it didn't work. Tried with both half and double frame and either in 30 or 60 fps the problem remained. The animation still "visible". I think it would be better if I show to you guys what I would like to do. This is a gif I made from the HGSS games:

vGX18zB.gif

See how the Sea makes an upright diagonal movement? I've tried to mimic this in Aesprite by moving 1 frame in that direction and looping the overlayed pixels in the opposite direction. When using Aesprite, the movement is smooth and continuous, like in this gif from HGSS. But when I port it to RPGMXP, you can clearly see a "pause" between the frames, so the movement feels off and broken. I really don't understand what I did wrong, but I feel that the answer lies somewhere in RPGMXP.

That's why I thought it was best to come here and ask of you guys.
 

AenaonDogsky

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Yeah, it didn't work. Tried with both half and double frame and either in 30 or 60 fps the problem remained. The animation still "visible". I think it would be better if I show to you guys what I would like to do. This is a gif I made from the HGSS games:

vGX18zB.gif

See how the Sea makes an upright diagonal movement? I've tried to mimic this in Aesprite by moving 1 frame in that direction and looping the overlayed pixels in the opposite direction. When using Aesprite, the movement is smooth and continuous, like in this gif from HGSS. But when I port it to RPGMXP, you can clearly see a "pause" between the frames, so the movement feels off and broken. I really don't understand what I did wrong, but I feel that the answer lies somewhere in RPGMXP.

That's why I thought it was best to come here and ask of you guys.
In "Tilemap XP" look for this line:

Ruby:
Expand Collapse Copy
 Animated_Autotiles_Frames = 5*Graphics.frame_rate/20 # Frequency of updating animated autotiles

Mess around with that and see where it gets you. It must be something related to framespeed, which you can't control externally as you would with a GIF. The speed between frames and the frequency of updates is handled by RMXP.

Edit: bear in mind that upping framerate update frequency might make the game lag. Autotiles in RMXP/rgss1 are horrible performance wise.
 
Last edited:

WolfPP

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I think they're the pics for the sea effect.
 

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DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Posts
133
In "Tilemap XP" look for this line:

Ruby:
Expand Collapse Copy
 Animated_Autotiles_Frames = 5*Graphics.frame_rate/20 # Frequency of updating animated autotiles

Mess around with that and see where it gets you. It must be something related to framespeed, which you can't control externally as you would with a GIF. The speed between frames and the frequency of updates is handled by RMXP.

Edit: bear in mind that upping framerate update frequency might make the game lag. Autotiles in RMXP/rgss1 are horrible performance wise.
I can't thank you enough for helping me. I'll try after my shift.

I think they're the pics for the sea effect.
Wow, how did you do that?
 

KP17

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Joined
May 14, 2019
Posts
41
I see. I don't know why it is like it though. I've tried to make the animation as smooth as it was when I make it in Aesprite, but doubling the frames or by cutting it off in half, but nothing I've tried seemed to properly worked when it runed in RPGMXP.

Do you have any idea how could I make it more fluid? Because I did like it too, but I still think I could make something to make the movement more... Believable
I'm pretty new to this still and haven't tried to do any animation tileset editing, I'm still using the base essentials tileset myself. I hope the amazing people here can help! Interested to see how it turns out!
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
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Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Posts
133
I'm pretty new to this still and haven't tried to do any animation tileset editing, I'm still using the base essentials tileset myself. I hope the amazing people here can help! Interested to see how it turns out!
I'm pretty new too, but I needed to start from somewhere, so I picked something I would like to see in my game and started from there. Since I wanted to revise the style from Gen III to Gen IV, I've tried to work with the tiles to see if I was able to work with it. So far, I'm, but I still have a lot to learn.

I'll try to keep this updated, so I can share with you the progress.

We can get them if we rip them from HGSS xD

Notice that the sea itself moves in diagonal - top right side - while the waves is diagonal but bottom left side (also more quickly):
beach2.gif
I know, I meant, how is your method? Do you use specific software to get the original files it or do you make "hard-ripping" (that means, you rip it from pictures in an emulator)? Or a combination of the two?

Because so far, I was only able to learn to rip sprites by cutting them from the picture, or sometimes, through the emulator OAM Viewer/Background Viewer.

But that last method works best only for the UI

Yeah, I noticed too. I've originally tried to replicate that effect, but distorted half of the frame to make it look like the waves were constantly changing. And of course, I was planning to make that lower left waves effects too, but since my initial tests looked like this (as in the original post), and thought it was better to figure that out before anything
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Posts
133
UPDATE

In "Tilemap XP" look for this line:

Ruby:
Expand Collapse Copy
 Animated_Autotiles_Frames = 5*Graphics.frame_rate/20 # Frequency of updating animated autotiles

Mess around with that and see where it gets you. It must be something related to framespeed, which you can't control externally as you would with a GIF. The speed between frames and the frequency of updates is handled by RMXP.

Edit: bear in mind that upping framerate update frequency might make the game lag. Autotiles in RMXP/rgss1 are horrible performance wise.

After trying to change the code suggested from:

Ruby:
Expand Collapse Copy
 Animated_Autotiles_Frames = 5*Graphics.frame_rate/30 # Frequency of updating animated autotiles

To:

Ruby:
Expand Collapse Copy
 Animated_Autotiles_Frames = 5*Graphics.frame_rate/40 # Frequency of updating animated autotiles

It worked as intended. Here's a GIF comparison of the not so final result:


kgSjltG.gif
O33otkd.gif

NEW OLD
It's so smooth now, that I fear my players will just slide off the water like it was an ice tile (again, pun not intended).

I think they're the pics for the sea effect.

All that I need to do now is to make the upper waves that WolfPP was kind enough to provide (Thanks bro). Ah, and if you're wondering why didn't I used the Sea Tile you provided, I figured that I should test with my own made tile before anything. In fact, I'm still wondering if I could make it work, due to the way RPGMXP works with autotiles (it's not intuitive until you find this image, and that it isn't even from the XP version)

But I digress. Thank y'all that answer me in this post. I'll post the final version with both wave effects here whenever I finish it (that if I could make it work...)
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
Member
Joined
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Posts
133
UPDATE # 02

Howdy, how's it going folks? So, I had a free time at the end of my shift and I thought, why don't I start working on these upper waves (I called that because these were the last one added, atop of every other layer of water/waves). It was much more simple than I thought to figure out a way to work the animation around. Though it didn't quite copy the same effect as seen in HGSS, I think the end result is pretty neat. Check it out:

OlN3UkC.gif
 

KP17

Novice
Member
Joined
May 14, 2019
Posts
41
UPDATE # 02

Howdy, how's it going folks? So, I had a free time at the end of my shift and I thought, why don't I start working on these upper waves (I called that because these were the last one added, atop of every other layer of water/waves). It was much more simple than I thought to figure out a way to work the animation around. Though it didn't quite copy the same effect as seen in HGSS, I think the end result is pretty neat. Check it out:

OlN3UkC.gif
That looks so amazing and smooth now!! You did great!
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Posts
133
That looks so amazing and smooth now!! You did great!
Thanks, but I think it could be even better... I can't say that much for now, but when I get from shift today I'll run some tests to see if my theory is correct. If everything goes well, I'll post the most probably the finalst, final iteration of the autotile
 

AenaonDogsky

Arbiter of Doggos
Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Posts
506
Thanks, but I think it could be even better... I can't say that much for now, but when I get from shift today I'll run some tests to see if my theory is correct. If everything goes well, I'll post the most probably the finalst, final iteration of the autotile
Glad you could make it work!

Please keep in mind that auototile frame update frequency might affect performance. Autotiles have been notoriously connected with bad performance in RMXP general, and, although the latest version of Essentials coupled with setting RGSS2 FPS to 60 seems to alleviate a lot of the lag, it might still get pretty bad for users without a 1st gen Ryzen or an Intel counterpart. Laptops should in theory suffer more from this, although I don't really know to be frank.

Also mobile interpreters like Joiplay usually disable autotiles altogether, and even MKXP used to have issues with them (not sure how it is now).
 

DeepBlue PacificWaves

Producer of Project Lunastone | Failed Dreamer
Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2020
Posts
133
Glad you could make it work!

Please keep in mind that auototile frame update frequency might affect performance. Autotiles have been notoriously connected with bad performance in RMXP general, and, although the latest version of Essentials coupled with setting RGSS2 FPS to 60 seems to alleviate a lot of the lag, it might still get pretty bad for users without a 1st gen Ryzen or an Intel counterpart. Laptops should in theory suffer more from this, although I don't really know to be frank.

Also mobile interpreters like Joiplay usually disable autotiles altogether, and even MKXP used to have issues with them (not sure how it is now).

Wow, I didn't know that. Living and learn, I suppose

UPDATE # 03

So, for those curious about my following statement:
Thanks, but I think it could be even better... I can't say that much for now, but when I get from shift today I'll run some tests to see if my theory is correct. If everything goes well, I'll post the most probably the finalst, final iteration of the autotile

I want to share what did I found until now. I started with Spiky's DS Map Editor tool, where I manage to grab the original Sea tile used in HGSS:

khQOwKU.png


The issue started right when I discovered its proportions. You see, since RPG Maker tiles are, as default, 32x32, I've run into some issues trying to port the exact same tiles from HGSS into my project. The reason is that the default tile from HGSS is undersized if compared to RPG Maker (the undersized default tile would be 16x16, but we normally resize it 2x to make it work in RGP Maker). As it is, the default tile from HGSS is already 32x32, and if I resize it 2x, it would not fit. This is very important when we see how the Autotiles work:

BPUWUYG.png

If you would go to RPG Maker XP with this auto tile and draw it as a 4x4 square, those purple tiles would fit perfectly into one another, forming a diamond shape figure. So my logic was simple: I would split the 2x HGSS tile into 4 and put every part into one of those 4 "purple" tiles. Sounds like it would work, right? However, this logic only considers that simple 4x4 square shape. If a person would do a more complex shape, it would totally break the tiles, as shown below:

8RPvhxl.png


This is important because if the dev wanted to make a crazy coast, like a peninsula or a beach, the autotile would break, making a total mess.

That's where comes to my second approach. Use the HGSS tile as it is, as a 16x16, undersized. This would make everything fits perfectly, like a glove, However, the undersized tile would conflict with the rest of the oversized tiles, as shown below:

NgbXWnv.png


This would be way worst at the Small Screen Size since the game would need to compress the tile in order to make the 2* 2-pixel density tiles became 1*1, which that particular autotile already is...

Needless to say, I think I hit a dead end. I'm fairly proud of my custom tile, but I really want to make the default HGSS work as intended. The closest I got was with this autotile, which I managed to make work in the same 2*2-pixel density as the overall environment. But I still needed to make some sacrifices in order to achieve that:

yCArQGS.png


That may not look that different, but a very well-observed person may notice that I did compress that initial HGSS double-sized tile into a 32x32, in order to make the pixel density and the tile size consistent. That is why the tile might appear a little bit... I suppose the word is, janky?

Well, anyway, this was the best I could do so far. I still think that the answer lies somewhere in here, waiting for me to decipher this puzzle to reveal itself:


BPUWUYG.png


But that it's it for today. After a day of hard work, I'll recharge my batteries and see if my mind can think of something. If not, then I might be done with this particular autotile

Thank again y'all for helping me with your feedback and knowledge.
 
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