Shiny Pokémon

[Fontbane]

The shiny rate in Pokémon has only gone lower with time. As of now, it's around 1/4000 in the official games. Being that it takes so long to find a shiny in official games, is this rate appropriate for fangames, or should it be lowered? Many games, like Spectrum or Reborn, have boosted shiny rates, but these could also decrease the value of shinies. Do shinies have as much value in fangames?

Also to consider is how fangames handle shiny Pokémon. Do they give them to Trainers? Are there scripted shiny Pokémon like the Red Gyarados? Are shiny Fakemon used in Mystery Gifts? What is your opinion on shinies?

 

[doof]

Wow, there's a lot of new discussion threads to keep up with nowadays, it seems.

Personally, in official games, I think the shiny rate is fine as it is. 1/8192, if I recall correctly. They're supposed to be rare and hard to find - a trophy of some sorts. A monument to long hours of hunting, or just a nice little trinket of luck. The more the rate is lowered, the less valuable they become. Sadly, almost every shiny you see in trades and battles online are usually hacked. Having a legit shiny is really something to be proud of. Or at least brag about, if you just randomly stumbled into it in the tall grass (even though I'm sure you've totally been looking for that exact shiny for the past forty hours.)

However, in fan-games, I think some of that shine has faded. If you catch a shiny in a fan-game, it's likely going to stay in that game. You can't trade it over to any newer version, migrate it through Pal-Park, etc. Few games have online trade, so you might not be able to swap it for something better. It's nice to find one and have one, but, if you're like me and never really play a fan-game again after you beat it, it kinda sucks when you realize that shiny's really confined to a single game.

 

[Dragonite]

I don't really like the colors of most shinies, least of all my own, but they generally don't affect gameplay in any way so I don't really care what you do with them in-game. Might as well boost the shiny rate so more people get to enjoy them, I guess.

Would be neat if you made your rival's shiny Starmie a plot point somehow, I guess?

Edit: don't boost it too high, though. I've only found two actual shinies in my life but I imagine the fun starts to wear off after a few hundred or so.

 

[Alaguesia]

Shinies are like a trophy, most people just like to brag about having them, and if legit they are more likely to be less useful than a normal pokemon, why? because nature and IV, sure, gen 7 solved the IV problem (thought those bottlecaps are rare), but there is still a chance to catch the wrong nature one, which is never desirable in competitive (unless you are just having fun instead of going serious about it).

And thats one of the points, Im only talking about competitive online matchs, because thats probably the only time you would see a shiny being used by a trainer, in normal playthroughts, most people only have seen one shiny and thats the mandatory red gyarados in johto. Having a shiny in official is nice, you can bring them in online matchs to brag, and you mostly likely can carry this trophy all your life transfering it to the next gen.

Now with fangames, thats the thing, most fangames dont have online competitive, or transfers to another game for that matter, the only way to catch a shiny is, well, catching it, mostly likely the game wont have any way of online trading, so let alone considering masuda method, nothing can save you from this. Heck, people are even more likely to be shiny hunting post game, and a post game is something most fangames dont have.

So for me, boosting shiny rate making it rare but not extra rare like official (something like 1%), doesnt decrease a shiny value, its morely like it increases it, having the normal rate would probably mean that your players never get a shiny, but with it boosted they may encounter it in the wild while playing the story, they will get excited, they may even rework their team so they can use the shiny.

As for NPC using shinies I think is a neat thing if they are still rare (like one or two trainers having them) and the shiny rate is boosted, because it would be frustrating see NPC with shinies and one as the player having close to none probabilities of having one. Scripted shiny encounters depends on how the player likes the color palette, I dislike misdreavus shiny, so if there was a place where I could only encounter shiny misdreavus I would go like "meh", but with something I like I would be excited.

 

[Hematite]

My personal preference is, rather like the official games, to give a very low rate (personally maintaining the canon 1/4096 rate) but also to have a lot of ways to boost that, like my personal favorites - the Radar or chain fishing - and preferably to make them engaging (like how those two examples require specific actions, following rules and paying attention) rather than passive boosts to what you're already doing (like Masuda Method, Shiny Charm and Friend Safari, all of which help your odds but are still just hatching or encountering and hoping for the best).

Another thing: just about any Pokémon is usable during story mode even if not competitive, and players will more strongly bond with the Pokémon they use on their game teams than one they catch randomly and then box (see "trophy" Legendaries that are caught for completion and barely used), but a single guaranteed Shiny like the Red Gyarados then goes back and loses its value because everyone has it. Something I've been considering is keeping track of how many wild Pokémon someone has encountered and rewarding a landmark with a 100%-Shiny random encounter (like, say, your 100th wild encounter will always be Shiny, but instead of being a specific Pokémon like the Red Gyarados, that could be whatever you run into so that not everyone gets the same thing). I'm worried it would be less exciting if everyone got a Shiny on their main runs, or if you knew about this and took advantage to get a specific Pokémon for your 100th encounter. What are everyone's thoughts on this? How could I go about this to encourage using a Shiny on your team while still keeping them special and not letting you abuse it?

I could also see something to the effect of boosting the Shiny odds until you get your first Shiny working. Say, the odds at the beginning of the game are 1/256 or 1/512, so a large percentage of players will find a Shiny during the main story, but then after you get your first Shiny, the odds become 1/4096 like normal. That way, it's still up to luck exactly when you get it and you can't abuse it to get a specific Shiny, but you'll more likely get one than not and your first Shiny is still going to take significantly less time than any later efforts? That could reward encountering Pokémon (opting to grind, sticking out harsher areas, going through grass to reach out-of-the-way areas instead of skipping them and doing the bare minimum, not using Repels, etc.), and make it so that if you want a specific Shiny and actually spend some time looking for it, your patience is rewarded sooner so the game doesn't get interrupted and you can get back on the adventure. But it also doesn't devalue Shinies because this is expected to be before you beat the game, to go on your story team instead of being traded, and so on, and once you're postgame and seriously hunting (if people do that in fangames) or dealing with competitive and trading and so on, you're not being showered in glitter left and right.

 

[manta]

Personally, I want to keep shinies rare. If you get one, then it shows that you're somewhat lucky and have invested at least a bit of time into the game.
I'm not going to make a big deal out of them; I won't make new shiny colours, but they'll still be there.

 

[Phi-Bi]

I don't really care about shiny rates but I do like custom shinies like they have in Reborn and Rejuvenation. Many of them are funny. Plus, you could involve your fans to create custom shinies which is nice, I think. I want shinies to be more than just recolor though. Perhaps makes them to have perfect IV guaranteed or makes their EV yield doubled like Pokerus-infected Pokemon but not transmitable or make them to yield EXP more like traded Pokemon, or make them to get critical hits more in battle (because they're lucky?). There are many things to explore~

 

[Dawn Bronze]

I think that in Fangames, it's perfectly acceptable and even a great idea to boost the odds of encountering a shiny Pokemon. The way I see it, shiny Pokemon automatically have less value it Fangames; you can't trade them to other games, the vast majority of times you can't trade them with other players, and if we're being honest, any shinies anyone catches are just gonna result in a moment of excitement, followed by hanging around in a computer file when you finish the game or get bored of it in a week, tops. (Maybe that'd be an interesting topic to discuss , the replay ability and longevity of Fangames) Building on that, I think for those reasons the want to have a shiny Pokemon is a lot less in a Fangame. Why spend ages looking for that slightly different coloured Ledyba in some random fangame when you're not really gonna be able to do anything with it afterwards? You could do the exact same hunt on an official game but then actually have options to do different things with it after you catch it. This might be a bit different in a Fakemon game, but I think the basic point still stands.

So for those reasons, I think it doesn't really matter if you increase your shiny rate, and in fact it might even be a good idea. Since people are less likely to hunt for them, and they don't really impact the game in a huge way with no trading in most fangames, you might as well up the odds, just to make the game more interesting for the player when they find a random shiny.

 

[Domiok]

I agree with most people here that the shiny rate should see some boost to make encountering or hatching a shiny Pokémon feasible. The rate should reflect the frequency at which you believe a player ought to see a shiny 'mon. Maybe the odds should favor every third player to get a shiny, or maybe every player on average should have a shot at one. This new rate should depend on the chosen frequency and the length of the game.

I likewise agree with some of what Hematite suggested about introducing mechanics for players to lower the shiny rates for themselves. Shiny hunting mechanics might be more appropriate in longer games where more Pokémon encounters are expected instead of shorter games, but I don't think that it would hurt if shiny hunting mechanics appeared toward the later portion of shorter games. Hunting methods could serve as a substantial reward for accomplishing something in the game or could be given out just as a treat for those players inclined to shiny hunt. I do believe, however, that passive shiny boosts are valuable as well, especially since many players may not be interested in directly hunting for shiny Pokémon. The passive rate increase does not need to be huge but just enough to supplement the player's chances of hitting the shiny jackpot.

 

[Shgeldz]

All I'll say on this manner is that if there's some sort of free shiny giveaways for at least moderately useable Pokémon in your game, you're basically taking away a slot of the player's party, because most players will use that.

 

[Evan]

Shiny Pokémon are valuable precisely BECAUSE of how rare they are. Take away the rarity, and you depreciate their value. The value we went for in Ethereal Gates was 1/1024, which, in retrospect, was a tad high. It was good in that people found shinies on a pretty regular basis and so people got to see the shiny forms of all our Pokemon, but they werent as special and cherished as the days when the value was 1/8192.

So I think keeping the 1/4096 chance that the main games give is good for an overall rewarding experience.

That said, if it's a short game, and you're just messing around, set it at whatever you like. Give people that thrill of seeing and catching shinies that they may not have experienced in real Pokemon yet.

 

[Involuntary Twitch]

I think a boosted Shiny rate is reasonable. In Pokemon Uranium we set it at 1/1024 for v1.0 (I think), which is four times more common than in the canon games. I did this with the player's reactions in mind. Encountering a Shiny Pokemon is always a special moment, and it may inspire you to use one on your team that you never would have considered using otherwise. Seeing people's joy, saying "OH MY GOD I GOT A SHINY?!?!" is really fun, which is how a fangame should be. 1 in 1,000 is still pretty slim odds, but it makes it more likely that a player will encounter one during a normal playthrough. Also, we made it easy to soft-reset for a shiny starter, because we *knew* people were gonna try so we wanted to make it as painless as possible.

There is a caveat, though: if you have a Nuzlocke mode, make SURE you enable an exception for Shiny Pokemon encounters. We forgot to add Shiny Clause to Nuzlocke mode on the initial release, and some people were pretty miffed, so... don't do that <<

 

[TechSkylander1518]

One thing that I personally love about shinies is seeing those with really cool schemes. (or even just a funny inside joke) Reborn does a pretty nice job with this-all the shinies are either awesome, hilarious, or some combination thereof. (though the Doduo line's leaves a bit to be desired-The PokeFusion meme is pretty funny, but just changing the color of one head does not make a shiny feel rewarding) Uranium's new dev team is revamping shinies, too, and they look fantastic! (I'm actually breeding a Swabone in preparation) I like high shiny rates when there's fun shinies like that; to me, they're more of a fun bonus than a trophy.

Something I've been considering is keeping track of how many wild Pokémon someone has encountered and rewarding a landmark with a 100%-Shiny random encounter (like, say, your 100th wild encounter will always be Shiny, but instead of being a specific Pokémon like the Red Gyarados, that could be whatever you run into so that not everyone gets the same thing). I'm worried it would be less exciting if everyone got a Shiny on their main runs, or if you knew about this and took advantage to get a specific Pokémon for your 100th encounter. What are everyone's thoughts on this? How could I go about this to encourage using a Shiny on your team while still keeping them special and not letting you abuse it?

I really like this idea, it seems like a great way to draw people's attention to a new Pokemon! Maybe you could include some kinda boost in significant battles (like gym leaders, rivals, etc.) if there's a shiny Pokemon on the player's team? They could have a shiny of their own, too, to show off their "ace" of the team.

 

[TheGamingPaladin]

i think the Shiny rate could use a little tweak, hours of catching or breeding for one is a bit much, what if you want a Shiny for your end game with Max IVs? you're gonna be rolling the dice a WHOLE lot more for that end game Shiny.

and i for one want a Black Charizard in my team, dont pretend that you dont want one. :P

 

[Jephed]

I personally don't think it is the shiny ratio that should be tweaked, but rather something else about these unique kinds of pokémon.

Back in the day when FireRed and LeafGreen was still kinda new I used to think shiny Pokémon had something else special to them, like an increased amount in a certain stat or a special ability or whatever. They were so illusive and I didn't really explore the internet as much as we all do nowadays. It wasn't until generation four that I found out my brother had lied about the "Special Powers" shiny Pokémon had.
I personally think Shinies should perhaps be a little bit more special in terms of usability instead of just making them harder or easier to find. I'd rather make shinies extra unique so that they're actually worth hunting for (which is something I am going to include in my project)

But I'd just keep the ratio the same, personally.

 

[TheGamingPaladin]

I personally don't think it is the shiny ratio that should be tweaked, but rather something else about these unique kinds of pokémon.

Back in the day when FireRed and LeafGreen was still kinda new I used to think shiny Pokémon had something else special to them, like an increased amount in a certain stat or a special ability or whatever. They were so illusive and I didn't really explore the internet as much as we all do nowadays. It wasn't until generation four that I found out my brother had lied about the "Special Powers" shiny Pokémon had.
I personally think Shinies should perhaps be a little bit more special in terms of usability instead of just making them harder or easier to find. I'd rather make shinies extra unique so that they're actually worth hunting for (which is something I am going to include in my project)

But I'd just keep the ratio the same, personally.

oooh, i'll have to keep an eye out for that project, that does sound nice and all the more worthwhile a reason to Breed/Catch for Shinies, especially when some Shiny Palettes are............. meh.

 

[Djaco75]

I think that Shiny Pokemon should be kept rare. There's nothing like the feeling of encountering a shiny Pokemon in the wild, and then feeling so proud of yourself when it's at such a low rate. I guess people could argue that not many people get a chance for this experience, but, personally, I would rather have that thrill and excitement than encounter them too often.

However, in regards to fan-games, I wouldn't mind the rate being boosted slightly. I'm fine with 1/3000 or 1/3500, but not anything drastic like 1/500. I guess it's really up to the developers of the game to see what their fans would think and make the rate based on that.

 

[TheGamingPaladin]

I think that Shiny Pokemon should be kept rare. There's nothing like the feeling of encountering a shiny Pokemon in the wild, and then feeling so proud of yourself when it's at such a low rate. I guess people could argue that not many people get a chance for this experience, but, personally, I would rather have that thrill and excitement than encounter them too often.

However, in regards to fan-games, I wouldn't mind the rate being boosted slightly. I'm fine with 1/3000 or 1/3500, but not anything drastic like 1/500. I guess it's really up to the developers of the game to see what their fans would think and make the rate based on that.

i'm not against keeping them rare, i just dont like the idea of having to spend hours and hours of hunting to find one, the Masuda method helps out so i am not really complaining, i just find it a bit TOO rare an occasion to run into a Shiny.

 

[Aki]

I support boosting the shiny rate in fan games. Shinies are really exciting to find, and it's not like having one actually affects gameplay in any way; it's totally harmless fun. Like, even fix the rate so that it's half shiny and half not and I wouldn't think it's bad, variety is interesting.

Spoiler: Only time I don't support shinies

...when the only shinies I can find are repeats of shinies I have. >_>

 

[TheGamingPaladin]

I support boosting the shiny rate in fan games. Shinies are really exciting to find, and it's not like having one actually affects gameplay in any way; it's totally harmless fun. Like, even fix the rate so that it's half shiny and half not and I wouldn't think it's bad, variety is interesting.

Spoiler: Only time I don't support shinies

...when the only shinies I can find are repeats of shinies I have. >_>

except half the time i dont want a shiny because of how bad the alternate palette is, there are some cool ones but i have to say that most shiny palettes are an eyesore to put it nicely.