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Evil Teams

Jayrodd

Professional Hot Pepper
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Joined
Jan 7, 2016
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22
A force lurks just out of your reach, plotting something out of your control and you can only deal with the breadcrumbs they leave behind along your journey. The evil team that plagues each region of the pokemon world plays a big part of both the hero's story as well as a gameplay variety tool. We've seen some great teams over the years and some have had some of the best moments of the series.
  • Discuss the importance of the evil team for what they provide to the pokemon experience
  • Share moments past teams have been effective or subverted your expectations
  • Brainstorm ways past or future evil teams could do their jobs better to create a better game for the player
 

VanillaSunshine

.。.:*バニラ陽光*:.。.
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Jul 3, 2017
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65
Obligatory "my first post on Relic Castle!!"

Evil teams are my favorite part of Pokémon; the game I'm making revolves almost entirely around its evil team, and my evil team is the part of my game I've put the most love and work into. (I've been focusing on the evil team since October, whereas the game itself only just came into thought about a month or so ago!) As someone who loves villains and Bad Things in fiction, a fan-game's Evil Team is what makes or breaks the game for me.

If your game focuses more on a younger audience (much like the official Pokémon games), you can absolutely get away with a cliche Evil Team, because there's nothing wrong with a cliche Evil Team. There's no Right or Wrong way to handle them, but there are certain ways you should handle them if you want them to be viewed a certain way. If you game focuses on an older audience, or has a more serious tone, you're going to have a difficult time using an Evil Team that isn't unique, interesting, or even "realistic".

My favorite canon Evil Teams are Team Rocket and Team Aether, but if I had to only choose one, it would be Team Rocket.
The thing that makes Rocket stand out from the crowd is that its leader (Giovanni) doesn't act as though his plan/goals are beneficial for the world. Giovanni is evil, Rocket is evil, their entire goal is to make money and make profit and they aren't afraid to do anything to get that. Rocket is corrupt, disgusting, and stands for nothing except its own personal gain. There's no "I'm trying to help the world be a better place", there's no "I'm trying to protect the Pokemon", there's no "I'm trying to fix the problems in the world".
It's just "I want money, so I'm going to get it."

Again, there's no wrong way to write an Evil Team; your Evil Team doesn't inherently suck because you took inspiration from Team Plasma or Team Aether and their motives. But, in my personal opinion? Those types of Evil Teams are so overdone- I'm bored of Evil Teams that come to me acting like they're the world's saving grace. GameFreak has done those almost every region since Gen 3, and it's tiring to watch this new cool Evil Team make the exact same mistake that every other Team before them has done.
"I'm going to make the world a better place, with the help of this Legendary that will definitely give me the power I need- oh no, the Legendary didn't listen to me, everything is falling apart, it's almost as if my plan was unrealistic and I should've thought about it for longer than 10 seconds!" It's difficult to take an Evil Team seriously when they keep doing this, especially after SIX evil teams have had this exact thing happen to them.

So-
For me to personally get engrossed in a fan-game's story, the Evil Team (if it has one) needs to break the mold. I don't want to roll my eyes and be able to predict the rest of the entire story because a weird looking guy/gal walks up and monologues about how the world needs to change. What's the point of me even playing the game when I'm already 90% confident that I know the entire story just from that one encounter? Again, there's nothing wrong with that, but if you plan to do something like that, you need to bring something to the table that makes it clear that your game isn't another regular boring Pokémon game with new maps and maybe new Pokémon.

But, once again: if you're having fun making/writing your game, you're not doing anything wrong. But everyone can benefit from breaking the formula for once!
 
I think my favorite part of challenging an evil team is uncovering the secrecy behind them. Now that everyone knows all about Team Rocket, it may seem obvious going back through the game, but Team Rocket had some pretty fantastic twists. The game corner that just seemed to hold minigames and prizes actually held a secret base? The absentee gym leader was only gone because he was busy leading Team Rocket? Those were honestly huge reveals!

A couple other secrets I enjoyed-
  • Reborn's Team Meteor isn't always very subtle, but they have quite a few surprises, including a secret takeover of the Day Care Center and recruiting a number of gym leaders to their cause.
  • I know people always say that the Aether Foundation wasn't as much of a shock as it should've been (given the cutscene at the start of the game), but to find out that only part of it was corrupted, while also being made up of volunteers and even government agents, as well as discovering just how many projects they had their fingers in, was still quite a surprise.
  • Team Flare didn't have many surprises, but Malva being part of the Elite Four was actually quite a shock! I wish they'd have done more with it...
  • pokemaniacal also has a very interesting idea I'd love to see in a game!

I think part of the reason why other evil teams didn't have the same shock to their twists is that there wasn't any other purpose to their secrets.Team Magma/Aqua's hideout is in a cave that you had absolutely no reason to visit before. (You can't even go in without knowing that it's their hideout) Team Galatic's HQ literally has their logo on the front. Lysandre's reveal could have been more of a surprise were it not for the fact that Diantha was also present in his introduction. (Two characters with custom models-it's usually only the champion that shows up in places before you battle them, and you can guess that the guy with the same colors as Team Flare talking about wanting to alter the world is probably not the champion.)

My most crucial piece of advice for anyone wanting to write twists is this-Make your audience suspect something else. If they're not expecting the story to go a certain way, the reveals won't surprise them at all.
 

Shgeldz

:eyes:
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Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Posts
105
Unpopular opinion: I'm not really a fan of any evil team. I think they're always secondary to the main Pokémon journey which is getting badges and beating the Elite Four.

In terms of game design, I'd have to say Rocket was the best, as they were pretty non-interfering and weren't the main plot of the game. From Gen 3 onwards it seems like GAMEFREAK decided to make an evil scheme/evil plan the center of the plots of these games. Not my favorite design choice.

That being said in terms of actual teams, Aqua/Magma take the cake easily. They're so silly and over the top, especially in ORAS.
 

Mak

Edge Lord
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Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Posts
113
In my personal opinion, a strong antagonistic force is a great way to make your story flow. While you can make a story without an evil team still eventful and unique, it can still be fun to have what is essentially a cult trying to bring some absurd goal.
But for Pokemon, evil teams make a lot of sense. Rather than being a single, primary antagonist, having a large team of antagonists helps to raise the number of trainer vs. trainer battles that are so important in the series. They just as much help to push the plot and keep the story from being a simple scenic walk from town to town.

But the most important parts of an evil team are their goals and reasoning. Do they want to just make a ton of money? Do they want to use the region's legendary to do some absurd thing to the world? Or are they just insane?
You can give an evil team whatever goal you like, but it's important to keep in mind that the best motives are the ones that you can understand the reasoning behind.
Team Magma and Aqua's motives tie in with the region itself, due to the large amount of water compared to most regions. Therefore, you can understand why they would want more land or water.

This also bring me to an evil team who's motives in my opinion don't work in their respective game. Team Flare wishes to reset the world and create a reality without Pokemon. That's arguably a sympathetic goal, knowing the injustices that often occur in our world. But here's the thing: they keyword is our world. Pokemon X and Y does next to nothing to establish that they may be in the right. All of the bad things in the game are caused by Team Flare themselves, conveniently the people that will survive and make the world "beautiful". Also they want to make money? Um... Those are two very different goals that do not line up with eachother very well.
But it's okay, they do plenty of things to meet their goals, including... Stealing fossils... Trying to get the president of the Pokeball Factory to join them... Also they were bullying an Abomasnow for some reason. Uh. Okay. Great way to make money.
To their credit, raiding the power plant made sense, as they were stealing electricity to power the ultimate weapon, but for the most part it feels like Team Flare only existed as a forced antagonist.

Team Galactic had a similar goal, but it was one handled much better in my opinion. First of all, recreating the universe without emotion was Cyrus's goal, which was kept a secret to the organization, and acted as a reasonable excuse for their unrelated endeavors. Second of all, they were very extreme with their actions to capture the Lake Guardians. Blowing up a lake full of Magikarp? Forcing you to walk through a maze of them? A little extreme, but it well-reflected Cyrus's motives of a world without emotion. To disregard hundreds of lives to meet your goals definitely reflects this.

Also, I like it when evil teams are humanized. Team Plasma did this best, with N and even some of the grunts having their doubts and even turning over a new leaf at the end of the game. Though BW2 Plasma wasn't as solid in this regard, it was still really interesting to see the reformed grunts and even a reformed sage at Driftveil City.
It's good to remember that "evil" teams are formed by ordinary people with varying levels of extreme viewpoints. Every person has a reason to do what they do, which means by all means raises the quality of a team when this is kept in mind. As I see it, the best villains are the ones you don't want to defeat.
 

Taq

Sandwich Master
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Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Posts
93
Discuss the importance of the evil team for what they provide to the pokemon experience

I think the evil team allows you to have opportunities for discovery by distracting you from doing your main goals like gyms. But more importantly they give you a story to focus on as your go on your Adventure...

But, for the teams themselves I feel pretty mixed, I think team Skull technically was the most interesting because they were a failures and not considered a threat to the public. But in reality I like team plasma the most just because their goals were logical even though they could've had the climax with out the Legendaries.
I think gen 3, 4, and 6 technically were all the same team, however, I think the reason 3 did it correctly (in Emerald that is) they had the two teams make progress simultaneously, they both were able to successfully summon the mascots which caused conflict. So while they were cheesy, the climax was done in an interesting way.
Now for the Aether foundation... tbh, I find them basically like 3, 4, and 6 just with an ultra beast instead of a Legendary. The only difference is that it's only a few members are like this and they have their own version of Mewtwo.
Now for team Rocket, they are just okay, I really don't think they are the best or worst. They are just there.

For the future of games I was to see more interesting styles and I have thought of some myself...

-Have the Legendaries not the focus or necessary for he goal, maybe they obtained it but only as a prisoner and nothing else.
-Make their goals more relatable like maybe a conflict between having Development/Change vs. Keeping old culture. Another is how humanity would continue (XY had potential for this but it was poorly executed).
-Make them more intimidating and show them have more progress then before. This can in ways such as maybe have them own their own E4 basically or have a hideout in almost every town? Oh! Or maybe their own entire base is a town (but not stolen like Po town).
-The last and most important thing is to stop making them have this conclusion always before or after the 8th gym, it's too cliche at this point, and I find it underwhelming that when you go finish that gym you have nothing else to do, it's pretty boring.

So overall, I want to see more innovation and creativity with these concepts and have a new way to present them.
 

Radical Raptr

Bug Maniac
Member
Personally I believe that Evil teams are vital to the experience as a whole. It's a fair point that they are secondary to the true goal, the gym challenge as the elite four - without a main goal or main opposition, the gameplay feels a bit lacking; without a major source of conflict, the game just feels off.
Further, If we're jumping off with the notion of the gym challenge and elite four being the main driving focus, then an evil team is essential to that experience, as gym leaders and the elite four are the strongest trainers in the region and are sworn protectors - Unova tied that fact to them as more than just an obstacle for the player. Defeating an evil syndicate is very befitting of an upcoming champion.

As a concept, they're very entertaining, They're typically an over the top group of individuals with a relatable goal taken to the extreme. However, Something that might be a bit more impactful is the way the Persona series handles villains - in the sense that the people you're supposed to hate, the villains, are absolutely and unequivocally horrible. The you should only be sympathetic to a villain to a certain degree, enough that they are indeed human and not just displaceable evil, but also absolutely unforgivable, and a threat that needs to be taken out. Personally, I feel that having a game with just the basic gym challenge is good for a short, small scope game, but if you're aiming for a bigger classic style game, having a sub plot or over arching story that ties in a villainous group is definitely essential to keeping the player engaged in the world, and wanting to continue playing, it draws the player in, wanting to fight for justice and avenge others, or right the wrongs of the world, and prove their worth of the mantle Pokemon Champion.
 

HollowGap

How am I still alive
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Aug 8, 2017
Posts
80
The heart of Pokemon game is traveling with your companion. The manga and anime also reflects this theme. Hence, evil team is not a must-have in your game.

But things can get pretty interesting when there's a strong conflict. But getting 2edgy4me can be a hard blow to your game. LSTF covers the antagonist topic really well. And while it's quite tricky to apply in a typical Pokemon game (because the player IS the main character), fangame has the opportunity to step outside the norm and gain its own strength. It's risky, but I think it's a matter of plot execution to keep player interested to the lore.

You don't have to make an evil organization. You don't have to make a legendary MacGuffin. A talking protagonist can be as enjoyable as silent one. Saving the world is an obvious answer when there is no consequence--what about a difficult choice when there is something to lose? Even when it comes to who plays the antagonist role, there are pokemon thieves in PMD and even non-pokemon creature, and they did just fine! We went emotional and conflicted on PMD games, but rarely ever on Pokemon journey game.

 

Ice

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Sep 15, 2017
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I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is a huge advantage evil teams have over singular antagonist, or a small group: Strength in numbers. An evil team can march up to any location and can turn it into a trainer filled maze of a dungeon. A singular antagonist would have to battle you over and over, or find some other way to challenge you. This concept makes evil teams a great pokemon antagonist. The vanilla mechanics don't really allow for non-human opponents to offer a threat, so it's hard to design a dungeon that challenges someone's battle abilities without adding a lot of trainers.

Evil teams also have the benefit of being an antagonistic force, and therefor being a proactive force. The player is usually proactive in their goal of getting the badges, but they're never proactive in their goal to stop the evil team. Teams take action, the player reacts and solves those actions. This makes it so that evil teams make great plot drivers. They force events to happen. It's not rare for that to be misused, though. Sometimes, a team is designed only with an end-goal in mind, and the mid-game encounters are just there to have 'story-elements' happen. Both Team Galactic and Team Flare suffered from this. Their mid-game encounters were inconsequential to the greater plot. Stealing honey or raiding a pokeball factory were actions that didn't need to happen. They just happened to remind of you of those teams presence in the game, creating the feeling of a larger narrative throughout your travels.

I personally don't see evil teams as a requirement for a game. I like the idea of someone designing a game without an organized crime syndicate as a looming presence. I feel like it's somewhat of a crutch for fangames, or rather pokemon in general. Every plot automatically falls in the same plot structure because of it, and it's somewhat rare to see someone break that.
 

Electric_man17

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Sep 15, 2017
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So my evil team organization is called Team Infinite, they are both Team Plasma and Team Galactic combined. Team Infinite wants to erase the Pokemon Universe by calling the Divine-Beasts of Love and Eternity. That's my evil team. What's yours?
 

Anime Watcher

dabbling in game design
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Well, I was working on a game where Team Rocket weren't going to be the bad guys; they were actually going to be the good guys, sort of, stopping other evil teams while the player moves up in the ranks and finds out all sorts of hidden secrets. I stopped working on it, though. I figured if I was going to pour hours and time into something, it might as well be something that will get past Nintendo if it becomes popular.

I like Team Rocket but not because I see them as totally evil, more because they are unique. Here are a few examples:

Pokemon Members:
Team Rocket are the only openly criminal organization that actually recruits wild Pokemon members! It's revealed in one episode of the Pokemon anime that Meowth is actually a field agent, along with Jessie and James, not just a companion Pokemon. I think focusing on Team Rocket's Pokemon members would be a great angle for a game. They aren't all owned Pokemon, which, to my knowledge is unique. Most evil teams use their Pokemon to commit crimes, but Team Rocket is capable of convincing wild Pokemon to carry out their evil deeds. Yeah, I know the games don't expand on this much, and we really only see it with Jessie and James, but let's just assume they aren't a unique case.

Organized Crime:
Team Rocket is highly successful. They covertly run legitimate businesses, like the game corner, carry out smuggling and Pokemon poaching operations, take over whole towns, etc., all with minimal police interference. It's also suggested that the members don't act on their own accord but are overseen by admins. That means that every criminal act committed by low ranking Team Rocket members was carefully planned, and if the police get involved maybe it's all a trick to throw them off of the scent of something bigger?

Controller Boss:
Giovanni is the mastermind behind Team Rocket, and we find out in Pokemon Ultra Sun and Moon that he's even capable, and willing, to alter the timeline to get what he wants. That pretty much means that Team Rocket is capable of anything, even recruiting members of defeated evil teams to join their ranks.

Powerful Custom Pokemon:
Well, again, this is exclusive to the anime, but we find out in Mewtwo Strikes Back that Giovanni ordered the creation of Mewtwo. What other evil teams actually have the resources and imagination to create their own super powerful legendary Pokemon? Okay, there are a few, but Team Rocket was the original. Other Pokemon games also hint at this by giving some Rockets extremely powerful legendary Pokemon, like Zapdos.

Style:
The Rockets have awesome style for video game villains. Not only are their uniforms cute, but they have these little idiosyncrasies that set them apart from the other teams. The "motto" is one example.

Not Just Gangsters:
Well, this may only apply to the anime, but, taking Jessie and James as an example, the members of Team Rocket seem to be complex multi-layered characters. They also aren't all just mere Pokemon thieves. In the anime, Jessie and James, and presumably other field agents who work for the organization, are supposed to be finding and catching rare Pokemon; there's no mention of stealing or even using illegal means, even though that seems to be the preferred method.

The anime also reveals that Team Rocket has powerful intelligent scientists working for the organization and with certain field agents, mainly Butch, Cassidy, Jessie, and James. These scientists may have been responsible for such things as reviving fossils, collecting information on Pokerus, and creating shadow Pokemon!
 
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AnonAlpaca

Why Do People Call Me A GOAT
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How Important is the Evil Team?

Personally - the evil team format isn't strictly needed, but it's really welcome and there's a reason it's stuck around so long. They're a very simple way to make a clear-cut villain - they all operate under the same umbrella, headed by a leader who represents them all - which gives you the freedom to make them morally gray, or operate in a unique way. I feel like the reason Team Galactic goes a little bit forgotten compared to Cyrus is because he's the only major team leader that very intentionally doesn't represent his team. While that makes him a memorable villain on his own, that means Team Galactic can fall by the wayside as they don't serve much purpose other than manpower.

They'll drive your story to whatever degree you want them to and it's easy to establish quickly who you'll be fighting against - Pokemon isn't a slowburner where half the mystery is finding out who the villain even is - or even if it's right to call them the villains. They have a damn uniform most of the time. On the other hand - a longer game might make the team format wear a little thin, though, unless you can get really creative with the

There's nothing wrong, as many people have said, with having a very clear-cut villain. There's a reason it's so popular. Although, then again, one thing that surprises me about a lot of Pokemon games is that the evil team leader is (almost) never actually the 'final boss.' I suppose it's in the series' nature to have your final battle be honorable, kind, and most of all against someone that knows it's natural to lose.
That being said...

The Team's Best Moments

Team Rocket: Simple Perfection
I'm a firm believer that despite all the times they have blasted off and been the stock team, Team Rocket is one of the more unsettling groups. It might be the fact that they are the first team, but they have a very nice disconnection to all the themes of Pokemon. While other teams strive for ideals the same way you strive to become champion, Team Rocket are totally alien to you. In a world where capitalism seemingly doesn't exist, they want money. That's it! Nothing more, nothing less. No amount of appealing to a grunt's moral compass is going to sway them, because you aren't even able to argue on their terms.
Could a child process that? ...Clearly not, since the one who had to is now currently hiding on top of a mountain.

Team Magma & Aqua: It's Not About You
One thing I really liked about Team Magma and Aqua, especially in the remakes, is that their target...isn't you. It's the other team. You, the 10 year old who shows up and wants justice just like they do, are not the threat. All they see is the man on the other team that's gone too far, too far gone. And the writers never try and pretend otherwise - Maxie's first interaction with you is (relatively) cordial, accepting that he may he able to educate you, and Archie actually takes his defeats the same way a Gym Leader might; with grace. The man even has a nickname for the kid that other team leaders might despise.
In doing that, it really helps to sell their eventual redemption - because in the end, they didn't senselessly change their target just because they were questioned, and challenged. And being challenged is exactly what a redeemed villain needs.

Team Galactic
Even if it was still trapped by the formula a little, the idea of a leader that genuinely never let on that he would destroy the world is one of the most memorable parts about Team Galactic. On the one hand, it really helps to humanise the grunts. On the other hand, it brings up a lot of very interesting character questions about the leader, Cyrus, without ever having to ask them outright. Does Cyrus know any other rational person would leave a team if they found out their goal was universal destruction? Or does he simply consider co-operation and consent to be irrelevant?
Additionally, it was a really creative way to add to the motif of spirit without making too many huge changes - here we have a team that isn't really a team, because how exactly can you have a team if you don't believe in the connections between people?

Team Plasma: The End!
Ah, yes, the one time the final boss of a Pokemon game was actually the main antagonist! Pokemon Black and White had such fantastic stories because they weren't afraid to stretch the formula to fit the narrative, while still keeping the hallmarks of what worked before.In all other mainline games, the defeat of the evil team is often either placed before the 8th Gym or the Champion, which unexpectedly makes the actual defeat of the Champion feel like the falling action, or for the more developed conflict to feel like a side narrative.
In having Ghetsis as the final boss, it really cements Team Plasma's attempted takeover as the core of the story. N's slow journey from indoctrinated, anxious and stubborn to openness and freedom becomes the emotional climax the story can work towards. In fact - I think that's why Ghetsis is so universally despised. I mean, other than the child abuse.

Team Flare: Yikes
I...don't actually know that much about Team Flare in terms of how their story is structured, but god, I liked the idea of the friendly CEO turning out to be not only be the bad guy, but the bad guy in a way that directly related to his position of power. Give me that good old message of 'companies aren't your friends and success doesn't translate to moral goodness.' I don't mind the fact that Lysandre was pretty clearly the villain - in fact, I'd prefer the bomb-under-the-table approach of it being screamingly obvious to the player that this man has bad plans.
Ultimately - though it was a noble direction to go in, on closer inspection Team Flare and Lysandre feel very out of place in Pokemon. Lysandre has the semi-common villain motive of 'overpopulation is going to drain the world's resources, so we must cull the unworthy' transplanted into a Pokemon setting, but - since when did the Pokemon universe have a comparably large resource problem, imagined or otherwise? But more importantly, Game Freak - you do know what kind of ideologies those kinds of villains were originally based on, right?

Aether Foundation: We Been Knew
Probably the first main instance of Game Freak actually trying to trick the player into thinking they're not evil - what I quite like about them is the fact that they don't go all in on the trick. It would've been very easy for the rehabilitated Pokemon to actually all be taken for experiments, for Aether Foundation to be a complete sham, but no. Not all the Pokemon get frozen for Lusamine's collection. There is a facade here, but it's pretty clear that the screwed up parts of Aether came afterwards. It fits naturally with the more character-focused narrative of Sun and Moon!

Where Next?

In terms of how the typical villain...thing could go in future games, I have a few ideas!
1. The Lone Wolf
In a world where everyone has access to pretty powerful tech and Pokemon, who's saying the evil team can't be a one-man band? I'm mostly thinking of Cyrus and especially Chairman Rose - Macros Cosmos' employees were clearly an afterthought so Macros Cosmos could count as an evil team, but sometimes, if the villain's especially well-developed and has a vested interest in working alone, why not have that?
The only issue I can see with this is that you don't get a stream of grunts to challenge on your way to the leader.

2. Ideology First
In the real world, a lot of organisations are often formed around an ideology rather than an explicit plan - or at the very least, that's what draws people in. In Pokemon, you could use this idea to subtly help your team stand out and have a middle ground between Dumb Grunts and Everyone Being Okay with Genocide. The people who joined the team knew what school of thought they were signing up for - and while it's their choice whether they go ahead with the plan, it's much easier to buy that they would, now that they're already there...
This is actually the idea I went for with Team Masque - they're all working to 'dismantle the status quo' and prove that they're better than everyone else, but only the leader and admins take it to the next level - and even they all have different ideas as to what they're working towards!

3. Slow Descent
Something that would really scratch my itch in terms of character development is a team introduced very early on in the game, so the writers can then either change what the team stands for over the course of the game, or slowly reveal the extent of their plans. I believe this would work very well with Team Rocket in particular, starting out with them being a disorganised gang of petty criminals and ending with their leader infiltrating the Gym Leaders, or...possibly even higher. Black and White did this rather well, in my opinion!

4. We're All In This Together
As a small note, I'd really love to see more people confronting the evil teams other than this one kid. To beat a team - you need a team, and you are its leader.

5. Character VS Nature
In most Pokemon games, the style of conflict falls under Character VS Character - the person you're fighting is a trainer like you. But Pokemon has some really interesting environmental setpieces you can play with, and the wilds of the Pokemon world aren't exactly forgiving... Even if it doesn't encompass all of your game's conflict, it could be a refreshing change for those who prefer less dialouge-heavy games, and a story that's heavily intertwined with the gameplay. Winter can't talk, but it sure can hurt your Pokemon.

6. Character VS Supernatural
Hey, so - we literally have Pokemon that are canonically either theorised to be human spirits or are actually human spirits? Where's our stories about the more unknowable parts of the Pokemon world? The slideshow of real world images that herald the return of Arceus to this plane of existence, the Escher-like Distortion World with a creature made of shadow, even Missingno - all of these could serve as inspiration for either a truly horrifying or truly unique story.

7. New Relations
I've already sort of covered this under Magma and Aqua, but what if your player character had a different relationship with the evil team? What if the evil team actually trusted you? (Never mind if you trust them.) What if the evil team actually benefits you in some way - like a trainer taking on the Gym Challenge with a corrupt management that just so happened to take a shine to you? What if the evil team turns out to not be so evil after all, when faced with an even bigger threat? What if the leader actually responds to people telling them it's not worth it? Shake it up a little bit!

8. Go Big, and Go Hard
Overall, I would just love to see people going all in on the ideas they love, even if that means changing the story structure, team structure, everything. I've always believed that most ideas, plot lines, et cetera that most would consider poorly-executed are that way because something about the core idea got sacrificed. Even if you aren't able to put every idea and every nuance into the finished product, the thought you put into it will show and make it feel fuller. Learn your villain inside out, and make the game fit you.
 

TheLuiz

The Mysterious Stranger
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Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Posts
19
Evil Team is too much of a stereotype at this point, it's not about the team of roadblocks, it's about the antagonist.

Let's get Chairman Rose as an example, he was the antagonist of Sword and Shield at the 45 minutes mark of the second half. The problem isn't just that he was too late in the story, but how he came out of nowhere as an antagonist, similar to Disney Star Wars where they brought a classic villain with no foreshadow whatsoever and said that was the plan from the start, your audience isn't stupid and probably hates being treated as such, even more fan games who has a more specific smaller player base than official games.

Besides being late game, Rose's plan makes no sense, feels like an afterthought from the developers and is kinda off character in general.

Let's rewrite him now, shall we?

In this alternate universe, Leon isn't the undefeated champion because he is good and everyone isn't, Leon is the undefeated champion because Rose manipulate the sport of battles to decide which ones come on top and who falls. BANG! Sword and Shield went from a simple and bland adventure to an experience of a hopeful trainer who slowly discover the rotten and corrupt world of the sport they love so much.

Your adventure start simple enough. Get a Scorbunny, challenge the gyms and so on quickly making Rose(or Oleana) discover that you have potential, a bit too much potential and they set out to destroy your career before it even takes off. If you pay attention, Leon has a lot of Sponsors, which means MONEY, economical relevance of the brands, stonks market, etc. In short, Rose keeping Leon at the top is good for business, the Gym leaders obeying Rose and staying as Gym Leaders and losing on purpose when battling Leon is good for business. You taking down Leon is bad for business.

This opens a lot of good storytelling possibilities:

1 - Rose could try to recruit you as a rigged new champion, starting the moral fight of fair and square sportsmanship vs the evil of corruption and money power.

2 - Rose could outright tell you to stop before you "get hurt".

3 - The Gym Leaders themselves, wanting to keep their position of influence and status, will serve Rose on taking you down instead of normal team admins.

4 - There could be Team Grunts, but instead of hooligans cheering for their leader's sister, they are government and/or sport council spies doing damage control against you. Bede, as he looks up to Rose, could be a spy to look for dangerous candidates who can be a threat to Leon.

5 - Piers and Team Yell could have a even bigger role as secretly against Rose's shenanigans. Hell, Piers distastes for Dynamax could be also a small foreshadow of how he rebels against Galar's putrid system.

Anyway, a simple change of motivations can change a bland antagonist into a powerful one that the public can actually like and even take their feud personal. And, trust me, when your player takes an antagonist crusade personally, when they actually want to go out of their way and stop the evil plans, its when you know you did a good story.

It doesn't have to be the best thing in the world, it doesn't have to be a Avenger's Endgame level of master piece. It just have to be good, make sense and don't threat your audience like they are 5 years old. Because even 5 years old kid get bored and that's the last thing you'll want.
 

AnonAlpaca

Why Do People Call Me A GOAT
Expo Team
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
Posts
62
Evil Team is too much of a stereotype at this point, it's not about the team of roadblocks, it's about the antagonist.

Let's get Chairman Rose as an example, he was the antagonist of Sword and Shield at the 45 minutes mark of the second half. The problem isn't just that he was too late in the story, but how he came out of nowhere as an antagonist, similar to Disney Star Wars where they brought a classic villain with no foreshadow whatsoever and said that was the plan from the start, your audience isn't stupid and probably hates being treated as such, even more fan games who has a more specific smaller player base than official games.

Besides being late game, Rose's plan makes no sense, feels like an afterthought from the developers and is kinda off character in general.

Let's rewrite him now, shall we?

In this alternate universe, Leon isn't the undefeated champion because he is good and everyone isn't, Leon is the undefeated champion because Rose manipulate the sport of battles to decide which ones come on top and who falls. BANG! Sword and Shield went from a simple and bland adventure to an experience of a hopeful trainer who slowly discover the rotten and corrupt world of the sport they love so much.

Your adventure start simple enough. Get a Scorbunny, challenge the gyms and so on quickly making Rose(or Oleana) discover that you have potential, a bit too much potential and they set out to destroy your career before it even takes off. If you pay attention, Leon has a lot of Sponsors, which means MONEY, economical relevance of the brands, stonks market, etc. In short, Rose keeping Leon at the top is good for business, the Gym leaders obeying Rose and staying as Gym Leaders and losing on purpose when battling Leon is good for business. You taking down Leon is bad for business.

This opens a lot of good storytelling possibilities:

1 - Rose could try to recruit you as a rigged new champion, starting the moral fight of fair and square sportsmanship vs the evil of corruption and money power.

2 - Rose could outright tell you to stop before you "get hurt".

3 - The Gym Leaders themselves, wanting to keep their position of influence and status, will serve Rose on taking you down instead of normal team admins.

4 - There could be Team Grunts, but instead of hooligans cheering for their leader's sister, they are government and/or sport council spies doing damage control against you. Bede, as he looks up to Rose, could be a spy to look for dangerous candidates who can be a threat to Leon.

5 - Piers and Team Yell could have a even bigger role as secretly against Rose's shenanigans. Hell, Piers distastes for Dynamax could be also a small foreshadow of how he rebels against Galar's putrid system.

Anyway, a simple change of motivations can change a bland antagonist into a powerful one that the public can actually like and even take their feud personal. And, trust me, when your player takes an antagonist crusade personally, when they actually want to go out of their way and stop the evil plans, its when you know you did a good story.

It doesn't have to be the best thing in the world, it doesn't have to be a Avenger's Endgame level of master piece. It just have to be good, make sense and don't threat your audience like they are 5 years old. Because even 5 years old kid get bored and that's the last thing you'll want.
Honestly, if you look at the flavor text in some of the League Cards (I'm not sure if you've read them or not) there's a lot that implies the Galarian Leauge is corrupted - or at least was corrupted, and nothing was ever done to reform it, which is basically the same. Your rewrite honestly feels like it would've been the natural course to take SW/SH's storyline.

"This photo was taken about 50 years ago, when Mustard defeated the Fairy-type Gym Leader and went on to become Champion. He reigned undefeated until he lost his partner Pokémon. After this, his losses started to mount. He remained popular even after losing the mantle of Champion, but decided to retire after the league chairman at that time asked him to win in a rigged match." - Mustard, Rare League Card

Really, it makes me wonder if this was the direction it was going to be taken before a rewrite.
 

TheLuiz

The Mysterious Stranger
Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Posts
19
Honestly, if you look at the flavor text in some of the League Cards (I'm not sure if you've read them or not) there's a lot that implies the Galarian Leauge is corrupted - or at least was corrupted, and nothing was ever done to reform it, which is basically the same. Your rewrite honestly feels like it would've been the natural course to take SW/SH's storyline.

"This photo was taken about 50 years ago, when Mustard defeated the Fairy-type Gym Leader and went on to become Champion. He reigned undefeated until he lost his partner Pokémon. After this, his losses started to mount. He remained popular even after losing the mantle of Champion, but decided to retire after the league chairman at that time asked him to win in a rigged match." - Mustard, Rare League Card

Really, it makes me wonder if this was the direction it was going to be taken before a rewrite.
I made this same statement on the middle of the year on another Evil Team thread on another forum, I just copy pasted here because it was relevant.
The original was made before the Isle of armor, so imagine my surprise when I read Mustard's league card.

Anyway, such a shame they would drop any good plot for, well, whatever that was. The whole Macro Cosmos happen right before the Elite 4 and Rose c*ckblocks your Champion battle(that had a way better build up) all because he couldn't wait one day.
 

_pheebs

Demoness on the prowl!
Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Posts
124
Evil Teams are only there to allow the player to feel they are a force for good.
Which sometimes isn't a good, for a decade or two now players have wished for either no forced evil team encounters, or just to be allowed to enlisted into the Evil Team's nafarious deeds. As teased by Team Rocket in Red/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen/Let's Go!

I feel Evil Teams would have more impact if there was consequences to their actions.
It would fall outside of the Pokémon Formula. But a cool thing I'd love to see is:

The Player defeats the First Gym, and hears Team Schenanigans is raiding the Local Museum.
The Player now has a choice, go to the Museum and stop them, or go to Ruby City and defeat the next Gym Leader.
If the Player stops them, the Museum is fine. They only steal 1 part of an exhibit. The Museum will now offer you free entry for helping out.
If the Player ignores this threat, and goes to Ruby City. Team Schenanigan have stolen 6-7 Exhibits to do with the Ancient Dragon, and you as the player are responsible technically. The Museum will now offer you free entry, but only because there's nothing to steal.

You can continue to ignore them if you wish.
You'll miss out on Legendaries, Story events, and such.
But if your main goal is just championship, or contest winning. It's yours to do.

The Champion will prevent Team Schenanigans final plan, no doubt involving a legendary, or a weapon, machine or movement.
Some people may go missing, or have moved out of the region because of the disaster.

Or even you join Team Schenanigan, and helped them research Legendary Pokemon, and travel the Region pushing their agenda.
In the end, you fight the Champion, and your Local Professor as your Boss tries to summon the Legendary.

Also: I always found it weird that the Evil Team's plans seem to fully begin the day you get your Pokemon.
Sure, they've been around for years perhaps. But it seems they start their proper plan the day you begin.
 
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