LEAST Favorite Features - Main Games and Fan Games

[Kururu]

I really dislike fangames that implement a second screen exactly like a DS/3DS, or insist on touch screen interfaces even though we're playing on computers. I also dislike when fangames feel they need to stay limited to the limitations of the GBA? While we're making games in a certain style, it doesn't mean you can't experiment with it. Even GBA ROM hacks are experimenting with expanding features!

 

[Crow]

Sound-type!

 

[-FL-]

MAIN GAMES

1. Trade evolutions: Need the first place because this idea is dumb in many ways. You need a friend who have in the same place as you (otherise you or this frined can trade high level pokémon), who need to receive your pokémon just to right trade back . So, you need to importune a trusted friend or he may disappears with your pokémon instead of trading back. This even isn't necessary, since there are already selectable pokémon like starters and fossils. They a least can make a very expensive fallback method, so I don't need to beat E4 with Kadabra. In gen 2 Game Freak took a step beyond and make trade item evolution, making these evolutions almost impossible without a guide or a friend really patient.
2. HMs: This limits he pokémon that you have and the movepool, specially in Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh, where you need 8 HMs, and 3 are Water type. Isn't uncommon to waste 1-2 party slots with HM slaves.
3. Mega Evolution: Unpopular opinion. Doesn't work on all pokémon, there is almost no reason to trigger instantly, unbalance my party. Besides design, all other "regional" gimmicks are way better.
4. Mandatory Exp Share/too easy: This isn't a "feature", but this annoys me a lot.
5. Evil cosplayer team: Like Galactic and Flare. This became too repetitive, I glad that Galar games change this.
6. 8 Gyms based on types: Johto and Alola are proof that other ideas can be done.
7. Finites TMs/TRs with you can only get one per game: Self-explained.
8. Gen 2 babies: Specially Pichu, Igglybuff and Cleffa. Instead of being an early route pokémon (like DPP did a little better, but not ideally), these are pokémon only useable to complete pokédex. They evolution method are so badly made than a Crobat and a Pikachu need the same conditions to be obtained, making evolving these weak pokémon a patience test. Even NPCs didn't use these pokémon.

FANGAMES:

1. Trade evolutions: Yes, some fangames copied this thing (Uranium, I was looking at you). I wonder how to evolve some pokémon when online server got shut down.

2. Main Series Copies. Okay, this one ranges a bit. When there are fangames that have the purpose of being very similar to the main series, I'm perfectly fine with it. However, when there are games that claim to be different but are literally the exact same, it irritates me. A lot. I always wanted to see fangames break the formula to begin with.

3. Weak pokémon without a good reason: Of the first route pokémon, the Pidgey clone can have a decent final evo, but the Rattata clone can't? Stop to copy these issues!
4. Bad made difficult: This isn't a "feature", but is very common to the fangames doesn't have a progressive difficult. They generally are one of these 3 scenarios: (practically) entire game hard, (practically) entire game easy or just the initial routes/cities are very hard (like Red's Journey West first versions).
5. Strange evolution methods: Almost missable without a guide.
6. Mandatory level caps (except for episodic games): The new exp formula is good enough to avoid grinding.
7. Turbo button instead of making the game fast: self-explained.

---

I only really have answers for fan games:
I swear all the hecking time irl, but it always feels out of place in Pokemon games. A few "damn" and "hells" are all I can take before it gets annoying.
Fan games that have increased level caps rarely do anything to justify them, and then only end up making you spend more time grinding. Lower your level curve instead of increasing your level caps.
QUOTE="sorryjzargo, post: 40835, member: 5532"]When there's a billion canon characters visiting from different regions, it gets a little annoying. I get it, Cynthia's cool, but why is she in the Dogfart Region, along with Maxie, Professor Oak, Steven, Lorelei, Youngster Joey, N, Lusamine, Emmet, Giovanni, Mars, Tabitha, Cilan, Hop, and Bill? Looker gets a pass, though.

This is something that I had in mind when making my game. I make sure to don't put characters like N and AZ, who don't have a good reason to leave their regions (different than Masters EX shows).

I see no problem if there is a good reason to have some characters, like a great discovery who brings several Pokémon Professor, or like Game Freak did with Pokémon World Tournament in BW2 (maybe too much, with some chronology issues and Giovanni being badly explained), but every single Gym Leader is too much

 

[Jewelwriter]

Main Series:

- Trivial difficulty (since Gen 6)
Since Masuda took over the level design of the official games, the difficulty has dropped drastically. The games are balanced so that a 7 year old can complete it. The main culprit is the Exp All (see below), but other factors play a role such as the ability to spam healing items in combat until PP stall the AI.
Special mention to the type chart that we no longer need to know since Gen 7: the effectiveness of the attacks is written in large under each of them.
It is generally necessary to wait for the post-game to find a difficulty finally suitable.

- The Omni-Exp (Exp All for all party)
The modern Exp All applies to the whole team, and which mathematically multiplies the experience gains by a factor of 3.5 with a full party (100% Exp rate for the fighting Pokémon + 50% for each of the 5 others instead of a 100% rate shared between each fighters). +250% experience, it's a huge gap and I constantly find myself in overlevel without forcing.
Still, you could disable Exp All on 3DS games to maintain the old difficulty, but the switch to Nintendo Switch has definitely put the nail in the coffin.

- Poor and Childish Story
Since Gen 5, there haven't been any real mature scenarios that make you think about life concepts. The Delta episode and the (too short) Ultimate Weapon's arc are the last two screenwriting pearls we had the right to see.
To play devil's advocate, it's in line with Nintendo's marketing strategy, which primarily targets a very young audience.

- HM slaves
Today is a thing of the past, but having to sacrifice moves slots or even a team slot just for an HM Slave was more of a handicap than anything else. Add to this that these moves are often weak and could not be forgotten (an abberation knowing that the HM can no longer be thrown out of the bag: it is therefore possible to relearn them at any time.)

- The four moveslot syndrome
I have always railed against the limit of four attacks since the first generation. The Anime has shown that Pokemons can clearly use more than 4 attacks in a single fight. There is a huge potential to be exploited if we can find a way to balance the stamina of the Pokémons with more moves available. This would make the battles more strategic.
Unfortunately, none of the alternatives to Pokémon (Temtem, Nexomon and Coromon to name a few) have broken this syndrome.
I will add in this category the energy partitioning with PP. (The mentioned competitors have all opted for a manapool, which solves this problem)
Fun fact: Junichi Masuda had planned to increase this limit when the game was upgraded to the third generation, but he changed his mind at the last minute, aware of the balancing problems it would cause.

- Harmful Status attacks (debuff moves) that totally ignore type affinity
The one and only exception that takes affinity into account is Thunder Wave (and just for immunity). Everyone else completely ignores the type chart. Sand attack can freely blind a flying target, Stun Powder has the same chance to paralyze a Swampert (double weakness from Grass) as a Crobat (double resistance) ... In short, the type attributed to Status moves is purely decorative.
That's why I liked the powder immunity for the Grass types from Gen 6. This broke Spore's hegemony in Gen 5 and created an "immunity mesh": the same debuff will not have the same chances of success depending on the affinity of the target.

- The Haxx added by Affection (Poke Amie, Poke Camp ...)
The idea itself is great, and I personally loved it. This emphasizes friendship with his creatures and shows that being loved by them has a real impact, just like in the Anime. The problem is with the Game design: it's very clumsily implemented. Statuses can be healed without having had time to take effect for 1 second, or a Pokémon can survive (taking zero damage would be a more accurate term) several times in a row with 1 HP.
By limiting the amplitude of the haxx (for example by letting the statuses take effect for at least one turn or by modulating the probability of surviving according to the remaining health), it would be much better accepted. Ditto if NPCs can take advantage of these bonuses and show that the player is not the only one to benefit from them.

- Stealth Rock
Considered the most powerful of all attacks (at least in 6v6 PvP), Stealth Rock deals massive damage to creatures weak to the Rock-type, automatically disqualifying many species. The problem with Stealth Rock is not taking into account the affinity (it's a good idea), but the amplitude too large of damage.
Spikes is an example of a better balanced Entry Hazard move. Some Pokémons are immune to it (immunity mesh) and percentage of HP removed is never more than a quarter.
Fortunately, the Heavy-Duty Boots nerfed this attack.

- Trade Evolution
Or how to handicap players who have a weak circle of friends, or just can't afford Nintendo Online.
Special mention to the trades that must be made with a held item (which will of course be destroyed).

- Breeding and EV distribution
The reproduction mechanics consist of producing eggs by the hundred until having the correct RNG for the 6 IVs. I have the impression of being in a hatcher of laying hens where all the male chicks are killed.
I would have preferred that the quality be privileged to the quantity (Temtem is much better balanced on this point), and give the player the opportunity to make their adventure Pokémons competitive, even without having any "perfect" genes. Hyper training is a nice feature (too bad you have to wait for level 100) but ability pills are still too expensive (especially the Ability Patch) and that clearly encourages cheating.
In parallel, hiding EVs is very annoying. The Super Training from Gen 6 was the best thing it could be. In Gen 8, the only way to distribute your EVs without making a mistake is to use vitamins (and wings). And for that, you have to start from a zero base. Please, Game Freak, give a way to reset the EVs to zero easily (e.g: Perillous Soup or anti-EV Berries buyable in unlimited quantities).
Our heart Pokémons are the ones who made the adventure with us, not the ones we had mass-reproduced using eugenics methods.

- 20 minutes timer on PvP battle
No comment. Having said that, it makes the joy of Showdown which has recovered all the disappointed players.


Fan Games:

- Aberrant difficulty
Tired of the ease of official games, many makers want to make a difficult game. Except that often, they aim too high and we end up with a very unstable difficulty, sometimes stratospheric (Dark Rising ...)
Afterwards, there is bad difficulty and good difficulty:
The bad difficulty is to put enemies at statospheric levels or with punitive mechanics (e.g. the attack with 100% accuracy that OHKO and erase your Pokémon).
Conversely, the Reborn series with its Field Effects brings its share of novelty. Even if they are part of the most difficult fangames, these new mechanics are very popular and encourage the player to surpass themselves (in particular by using the battlefields to their advantage).

- Spelling and grammar
It follows that fangame is an amateur environment, but please be careful with the writing.

- Bugs
The reason is the same as for the spelling. Developers do this as a hobby and the bugs are much more common than in professional games. But if there is one thing to avoid, it is the crash that causes you to lose all your progress since the last save. This can definitely discourage a player.
As much as a texture or collision bug can leave a smile on your face, a crash can definitely discourage a player, because he lost all of his progress since the last save.

- Uglymons (and poor artistic direction in general)
It is better to be satisfied with the official assets rather than to absolutely seek to make Fakemons without having the artistic level. Seeing poorly drawn creatures is a pity for the eyes. Afterwards, if it's intentionally parodying, it can be a lot of fun.

- A scenario that takes place in an official region in the present (especially Kanto)
The Let's Go series definitely gave me a Kanto overdose.

Oh boy... where to begin with this one. At least it isn't too much of a Falcon Punch.

Main Game's Section:

• Difficulty: I kind of wish for the difficulty to be kind of Customizable like Coromon but it makes me wonder where to go minus AI edits.
• EXP-All: I can Fully Agree that the EXP is a problem but I feel this should be a Post-game item of how it seems to function.
• Story: This is hit or miss, and would require reading it to get it right.
• HMs: I'll throw my hands on this until the very end. KEEP HMs IN THE GAMES! This is supposed to be about using YOUR pokemon. And seriously, stop trying to remove it since you got your PC in your pocket so there's no real excuse to NOT have them.
• Moves: This is where I will throw down again. This time it's because in a way each Pokemon is like a pack of cards. You can only have a limit of what can do a certain thing and you got a deck of 24 dealt out into 6 mini decks in which you can't have the same move more than once per mini deck and you and your opponent are trying to lower that mini-deck's HP down.
• Status Buffs/Debuffs: This is a mixed deal as I will agree some things don't work [Like how sand gets a bird] but this might need a case-to-case read overall.
• Affection: This... I can say needs an overhaul. Though not to the point of pointless. And I'm saying this because... THIS IS A SINGLE PLAYER problem. If it was to ever get into multiplayer I'd have a bigger issue with it.
• Stealth Rock: This is something I feel would need a nerf or a different power like this idea: (For every Rock/Ground Types in your party, This move Deals 1/16th HP damage to a Pokemon Entering Play.) It will be a telling sign of what kind of team your opponent has and what to expect.
• Trade Evolutions: Kind of makes me wish for an Offline ally to help you 'Trade' Pokemon if needed.

Fan Game's Section:

• Difficulty: This is where custom diff can help but you need to be mindful...
• Spellcheck+: This isn't too bad though it would help to keep up with it. [I mean even professionals at times goof.]
• Bugs: This I can agree and hopefully if bugs do appear that they are fixed but if it's crashing so much then it's a problem that is to be hit fast.
• Uglymon: I feel this is a YMMV thing (Your Miles May Vary) since some looks aren't terrible but it depends on who makes it and how skilled they are.
• Real Region use: This can be done right but it has to be done differently like it's years after or beyond certain events. So you can tell your own without really altering the story but maybe have it be told differently. An example would be like this: In Alola, the gym system has been set up and while there are 8 trials, there are also 8 gyms. The 8 Trials are kept as part of the tradition of Alola [Normal, Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Ghost, Dragon, Fairy] but the 8 gyms are representing the elements that aren't handled directly by nature's champions [Fighting, Rock, Dark, Ground, Flying Steel, Bug, Poison] and the trainer can follow their way but following one sooner will allow you to reach the Tapus and challenge them to be known as a guardian and protector of the region while going to the Champion route will get you access to certain products quicker.

I'm sorry if this stepped on you a bit but I feel like some of the stuff mentioned is kind of bloat.

 

[Hexcalliber]

Main line game:

• The HM system, i mean i know this is like beating a dead horse but since you ask. Everytime i play through an old game for nolstalgia reason or because i wanted to try it for the first time afer missing it when it first released. I got hit with the good old hm system where you have to. 1 have to learn it to progress and 2 cant forget it with out a move deleter. Even worst that i start playing pokemon around 2017 so i have already familiar w not having to use hm. IMO hm should have just been optional, like you can use to go the there now or have to take the long way kinda like fly. OR make those move a bit stronger like higher attack, secondary effect, different type,... Just something that makes people dont see it as some kind of nuisanse
• Needessly small/overly complicated feature or detail that you have to go out of your way to get. Things like in FRLG for every 25 time you become the champion, there will be one more stuff animal in Lorelei house or something in that ballpark.
• Retconning, look we all made mistake and have things we want people to forget about and i also understand that they need to promote their new features of the new game. But to try and make it so that teh older features look like it was never there in teh first place is just really dumb, especially when some of that feature were litterally some of the best thing that happen to pokemon, yes im talking about mega and ash greninja how can you tell.
• Single use TM with out an easier way to get it. What if i mistakenly forget a pokemon move or need multiple pokemon to have that move, with out the funds to buy them from the game corner or some other place then gambling is kinda my only option.

Fan games:

• Bad fakemon, im saying fakemon that is just a chore to use. It sometime feels like when the fakemon were design, most of the graymatter was spent on the design and lore that everything else suffer or was sacrifice for the concept, mainly stats, ability and move pool.
• Bad fakemon design, this depends more on each personal opinion. But for me, im very discourage when ever going into a game with fakemon look like you opened up ms paint. My point of veiw has always been your game doesnt need fakemon to be good nor having fakemon will make it good. So if you do decided to put them in, maybe make some effort designing them. I understand not everyone can draw professionally or have the bank to commision for it, and you want to put fakemon to the game to give it a fresh look. But if you do feel like that then you need to put even more effort into designing them. Practice, do sketches, consult with other people.
• Needlessly and horrendous amount of edge. Look i know we all have been yearning for a more adult oriented pokemon game. But theres a different between mature theme and "mature" theme. Swearing every other sentence doesnt make you look more mature, its the opposite.

 

[Neeka]

There are lots of things, especially in the later games that bothered me. But what gets me is the sameness of all of the games. With the exception of Black and White, the PC comes from some rinkydink town... heck, Gens 7 - 9, they don't even start out in a town! Most fangames copy this.

 

[SuperSpyroDragon64]

Since there's a lot of discussion in the other thread on the favorite features that you all enjoy throughout the generations, I was wondering about the type of features or gameplay trends that you really do not like in the main games and fan games that you play.

Spoiler: Pokémon Giveaways in Recent Games

One example for me is how the newer titles give the player powerful Pokémon for virtually no effort. X and Y award the player with a Mega Lucario as part of their explanation of Mega Evolutions after an early gym battle. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire hand out Latios and Latias, notoriously evasive legendary Pokémon in the original titles, for defeating an enemy team admin in order to open up soaring to the player. While these giveaways present important features for their respective games, I really wish that the games made me go through more effort to justify the free, strong Pokémon.

How about for you all?

I hate seeing 99% of a region's wild Pokemon data flooded with common garbage like Rattata or its regional Rattata-like. Don't make me grind for 1% encounter rates.

I also hate level curve based difficulty.

More like level curve CRINGE difficulty.

Just remove level from stat calculation or reduce its impact, there are other ways to make your game hard to beat.

And "Hard to beat" does not mean "Annoying and time-consuming to play" or "Punishing when you lose". Harsher penalties for losing do not inherently make the challenge itself harder. Nuzlockes are fake difficulty. Fake tension for youtube views. You can beat most Pokemon game with garbage Pokemon, even in solo runs, so losing your starter to a lucky crit really doesn't matter unless you're playing a game so hard, certain OP Pokemon are necessary and losing them means a run reset.

Also, randomness is cringe. Luck is cringe.

 

[Astefia]

• I'll just repeat: HMs. Make them items, or make the pokemon able to use them without filling a spell slot, please.
• When running have to be unlocked, not available from the very start.
• When the game by itself is slow, but turbo mode is uncontrollably fast and makes you bump into everything
• Trade evolutions
• When descriptions for fangames don't tell if they kept trade evolutions or gave a different, more useable methods.
• Mandatory hard level caps. Can't you make them optional, to be a welcomed feature instead of an annoyance? Turn them on for challenge and off for convenience...
• But also mandatory EXP gain. Looking at you, SwSh with its Exp.All you can't turn off.
• Stretches of road with nothing in them. Looking at you, Pokemon Old Amber - I love you, but I could only complete you once.

 

[Astefia]

It's more of a pet peeve, but the one I encountered multiple times.
Why in the world would the Game Corner only show the TM numbers and not the moves in them? Moves-to-numbers changes in each game! Do I have to savescum for every. single. one. just to know WTF I'm buying?

 

[safr]

exp share all can't be turned off, call me old fashioned but it take certain fun feeling from me

 

[Astefia]

exp share all, call me old fashioned but it take certain fun feeling from me

Add "that you can't turn off" and I'll agree with everything I've got. If you can turn it off, I don't see what's the big deal.

 

[TreadingWater]

Main Games:

HMs

I understand why HMs are so frustrating for many people, a combination of them being forced upon you in order to progress in combination with them usually being pretty underwhelming moves that are super-inconvenient to get rid off once learned. At the same time, I can also understand the charm of your Pokemon helping you progress and their use as puzzle-solving and gate-keeping you from going too far ahead.

Something like the field-skills from Monster Hunter Stories would allow you to have the best of both worlds where it is still your team-members that are helping you progress through the world but it doesn’t get in the way of your battle-prowess. (Even if the field-skills weren’t necessarily well-distributed in all cases in those games, I still don’t understand why Yian Kut-Ku has Rock Breaker but Yian Garuga doesn’t given that they are both known for hammering their breaks into the ground…)

I do think that Reborn was a step in the right direction in that while they were still present and required in order to progress, they could be overwritten just like any other move and it made them much more accessible since you didn’t necessarily have to have a dedicated HM-slave but could instead teach them to your regular team-members temporarily and then overwrite them once you no longer needed them. And Black and White also made it so that you were never forced to use them beyond using Cut to enter the Dreamyard, the HMs more being used to explore optional content.

Or you could make the moves actually desirable to have on your team like Surf or Strength that at least has decent power. There are many ways of improving HMs without removing them altogether.

Trade-evolutions

I get that the creators of Pokemon wants to encourage people to trade with one another, but this leaves people who got into Pokemon late (like me) with no luck as they are unable to fully evolve their team-members. And with network-support eventually ending as maintaining servers for old games becomes increasingly unfeasable, the only way to evolve these pokemon is now limited local trades which not everyone has.

I am honestly glad that later Pokemon-games has begun to transition away from them in recent years and find more interesting evolution-methods.

Fangames:

Lack of Encounter-list/Changelog

As somebody who likes to plan my team ahead of time, there is nothing more frustrating than trying to figure out which pokemon are available where in a small game with no wiki or encounter-list available. This goes for evolution-methods as well if those are changed. I understand the charm of figuring out stuff yourself, but it honestly should be more standard practice than it is. You can always choose not to read it if you want to go in blind.

Lack of strong story-hook

This is one that I have experienced the most when it comes to games with the 8-gym formula and maybe I notice this much more due to me being a writer first and foremost, but many fangames of this kind just have you go from town to town and beating all the gyms because that is what you are supposed to do in a pokemon-game.

When I feel like barely anything significant has happened by the time I get to the fifth gym, you have clearly failed when it comes to the story-telling.

In the case I just mentioned, I had barely even met the antagonists by that point and those I had encountered were just plain grunts without any named members that stands out. I barely cared about what was going on because very little had actually happened, let alone anything exciting that would get me interested in seeing where the plot was going.

 

[Mr. SU]

I'm gonna mention something that not everyone may agree with but I think is worth considering in fangames.

Overly Bloated Pokedexes
I get it, it sucks that you can't bring every pokemon up to every new game. But the regional dex exists for a reason. Not every pokemon needs to be available in your region. If you already have Furret and Linoone, you probably don't also need Raticate and and Watchog. It leads to encounter tables with like 10 pokemon in them and it's a complete hassle to get the one pokemon you're looking for unless your game has an item like Reborn's magnetic lure. It also becomes near impossible to balance a game with the sheer volume of pokemon available to the player in the late-endgame when players can bring over 700 potential pokemon to these fights.

Aiming for a smaller regional dex will simultaneously
-Make it easier to balance the bosses in relation to what the players will have to deal with them.
-Give your region more of an identity of its own
-Make finding individual pokemon much easier
-Make developing your game much easier

More doesn't necessarily mean better.

 

[TreadingWater]

I'm gonna mention something that not everyone may agree with but I think is worth considering in fangames.

Overly Bloated Pokedexes
I get it, it sucks that you can't bring every pokemon up to every new game. But the regional dex exists for a reason. Not every pokemon needs to be available in your region. If you already have Furret and Linoone, you probably don't also need Raticate and and Watchog. It leads to encounter tables with like 10 pokemon in them and it's a complete hassle to get the one pokemon you're looking for unless your game has an item like Reborn's magnetic lure. It also becomes near impossible to balance a game with the sheer volume of pokemon available to the player in the late-endgame when players can bring over 700 potential pokemon to these fights.

Aiming for a smaller regional dex will simultaneously
-Make it easier to balance the bosses in relation to what the players will have to deal with them.
-Give your region more of an identity of its own
-Make finding individual pokemon much easier
-Make developing your game much easier

More doesn't necessarily mean better.

This.
Absolutely this.

I recently played Shattered Light and it was a pain to get the team-member I wanted, let alone with the right ability, thanks to each route having 10 encounters in them. This in combination with the lack of story-hook made me stop playing as it stopped being fun.

And on top of that, it isn't like they separated the pokemon-families out in a way that makes sense (like you can still have the different rodent-pokemon in the same game but maybe have Rattata in the city slums, Sentret in the forest, and Patrat out in the steppes/open plains so that they aren't encountered all at the same time) but instead have them all in the exact same place. You can also save some of them for sidequests/post-game areas as well, you don't have to have all the pokemon available during the main story.

Personally I think that maybe 5 or 6 encounters is more than enough. 2-3 common, 1-2 slightly rarer and 1 really rare that you will have to look out for.