Credits

[TechSkylander1518]

So, this is something that's probably never really thought about with development, but I realized there's a bit to be discussed when I was putting together my credits for Game Jam!

How do you think a game's credits should be organized and presented?

• Which is preferable- a credits sequence at the end, or a document inside your files with credits? Or both?
• Do you as a player pay attention to credit sequences? Are they worthwhile even if you don't?
• Should you link to a user's profile/asset, or just list their username?
• How specific should your credits be? For example, should you specify who did the tiles, who did the trainer sprites, and who did the UI, or credit them all as Graphics? If you used Marin's fastforward, footsteps, and shadows, would you list each function, or just credit Marin with "scripts"?

My thoughts:

Spoiler

I've personally never actually payed much attention to a credits sequence in... anything, probably. I see a lot of ways people try to make it interesting, like Splatoon's splatting credits or that Smash credits where you shot at names, but that was more of a distraction from the credits IMO.

But, also, the times that I have wanted to look at a credits sequence, I've actually found the format most video games use, a movie sequence triggered by completing a major story event, to be the worst kind for referencing. I once wanted to use a building I saw in Pokemon Uranium's tilesets, but Uranium's credits were only viewable through the end-game sequence. So I had to find a playthrough of the final boss, and scroll through to find the usernames credited for tiles. And then I also had to google each name and look through their gallery, because they were credited as a sequence. (Hardly a shock, though, it would be strange to see "Those grey buildings in Bealbeach were from ChaoticCherryCake's public tileset", and even that set doesn't specify which user made which asset, just expecting you to credit them all to be sure)

Admittedly, though, Uranium was in a pretty unique position at the time, since the official site and threads had been taken down. Games with either one of those tend to have a much easier text-based credits to read, so it's not like the sequence needs to be functional in the first place.

I'd also like to add that the RGSS player doesn't load when it's not your active window. So whenever a player finishes the game, they kind of have to leave it running front and center. (I mean, I guess they could always mute it and watch something in a separate window, but they can't do anything that involves clicking or typing)

But, at the same time, there's an even older tradition that shaped all of these credit sequences, and that's taking a bow at the end of a performance. It is a pretty nice feeling, even if it's just seeing your name go across the screen, and so I get that people would still want to have that moment of celebration for their work being used.



I think you should always link your contributors, too. People might not actively seek out someone, but if you make it easy for players to find them, they might get a few compliments on their work, or even some new fans of their content. It also makes it easier for any devs inspired by your work that would like to use the same resources, if you're linking something public. That's another reason why I prefer doing a text-based credits, since you can't really link on a movie sequence.

 

[VanillaSunshine]

Oh, this is a topic I am greatly passionate about. How did you read my mind knowing that I've been harping about this exact topic for weeks now?!

You would be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't believe credits are vitally important. (Well, besides the occasional youngun who probably doesn't quite understand that the things on their computer screen are linked to actual real life people.) So, I don't think I need to get into a discussion about how important credits are to a project.

I imagine most people don't look at the credits unless something caught their attention, such as the music or some specific tiles. I mean, let's be honest here, if you didn't go "I like that, I want to know who did it!", you really don't have any reason to be reading through the credits of something. So, because of that, I imagine many casual players don't look at or read the credits of a project; they usually aren't personally interested in the individual components of a game, they just see it as "The Game" and decide if they liked it or not.

As a dev, one of the first things I look at when I see a new project is its credits. I want to know if I recognize any of the names! I love seeing Akizakura16 or Atomic Reactor in the credits, because I know those users and I generally know all of their work; now I have a bit more of an attachment to this random project, because I know I'll find something that I'm familiar with inside it. It also gives me an idea of what kind of ideas or details the developer paid attention to; if they have a bunch of Marin's scripts like Enhanced Staircases and the DP Pause Menu, I can logically conclude that the developer is going for a more Gen 4 styled game, even if their tiles and OWs are Gen 3.

You touched on this in the last paragraph of your own take, and I want to emphasize how much I agree.
I am a vehement subscriber to the idea that you should **ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT FAIL** add a link to resources & artists you credit.

"But Vanilla, I can't find the original artist/source/post!"
Then why are you using their work in the first place? How do you know it is still public? How are you certain it was ever public in the first place? How do you know if their username has changed, and you're now crediting them under a useless old pseudonym? How do you know where it came from? Just because you found it somewhere, does not mean you are entitled to using it.

It took me two hours over the course of three days to find the links to EVERY SINGLE artist whose work I plan to use in my project. If I could not find the artist, I did not use that tile or building or whatever it was. Two hours out of your development time spent on respecting the artists whose work you are using is NOTHING compared to the grand scheme of your game.

And guess what? You wouldn't have to take two hours to hunt for every artist if every other developer already linked to the artists they used!

I DO NOT think a list of usernames is enough. I understand that a list of usernames is the community-accepted way of crediting people, but I think it's incredibly lazy and that laziness is disrespectful to the artists who put in a lot of hardwork to create the art you are using. (Side note: when I say "artist" I mean "creative individual", and when I say "art" I mean "something created by an individual". So, I am referring to musicians, writers, coders/scripters, and anyone else who has created something. I am not speaking exclusive to visual artists, and no one else should be either.)

If everyone worked together to add links to the things they credited, it would become a lot easier for every other developer to do the same.
You are using someone else's public work! Don't you want that artist to get some attention and recognition on their pages?

Listen, like I said, I understand an arbitrary list of usernames is the accepted way of crediting people. I'm not going to judge someone or fault them when their credits are like that. However, I really hope the community starts shifting toward adding links to their credits. It is NOT that hard to do, and if you struggle to find a public source for the art you're using, maybe you shouldn't be using it in the first place. You are not entitled to someone's work, even if it was available publicly in the past. (And, this is a huge community! It's so easy to ask "hey, does anyone know where this building/tree/trainer is from?" and someone is bound to know the answer!)

Here is what a section of my credits.txt looks like. This section is specifically for the tiles used in my tilesets.

Spoiler

The "fav.me" links are links to specific DeviantART uploads. In cases where I used many, I just linked to the artist's gallery. In cases where I took something from an open-source fan game, I linked the threads of the games where I found them. In the case of PureAzuure, they are still being credited in people's games as "TheGreatBlaid", when they've been known as PureAzuure since 2016!!
(** Fun fact, if you use Atomic Reactor's tilesets, I've already done 90% of the work for you in this friggin image!! There's no excuse, now!)

Here's what a part of the resources section of my credits.txt looks like. (This is basically anything that is not part of the tileset.)

Spoiler

Nice! Now no one who plays my game has to scroll through Marin's 10,000 awesome resources just to find the specific one they saw in my game!

At the expense of sounding rude, it is NOT that hard to do, you are simply lazy.
If you can't find the source, either don't use it or at least link to where you found it in the first place, such as another fan game.

And that is my personal opinion about credits. Please include a separate TXT file with your credits, and please find the links to the work you're using. If you can't find it, then ask! If no one else can find it, don't use it! Make your own! You are not entitled to that individual's work when, for all you know, they deleted their accounts and don't want their work being used for any new projects!

 

[Aki]

I'm pretty suspicious that my opinions are gonna be extremist in this case...too many years moderating threads eheh.

As a dev, one of the first things I look at when I see a new project is its credits. I want to know if I recognize any of the names! I love seeing Akizakura16 or Atomic Reactor in the credits, because I know those users and I generally know all of their work; now I have a bit more of an attachment to this random project, because I know I'll find something that I'm familiar with inside it. It also gives me an idea of what kind of ideas or details the developer paid attention to; if they have a bunch of Marin's scripts like Enhanced Staircases and the DP Pause Menu, I can logically conclude that the developer is going for a more Gen 4 styled game, even if their tiles and OWs are Gen 3.

♥!
I like checking especially for scripts, not everyone is great about writing all the features of the game in the main thread but looking at the credits and seeing a bunch of familiar resources is easy. I'm pretty practiced at seeing screenshots and then knowing what names to expect in the credits, so if I read and see multiple credits missing I know to skip this game. Maybe it's harsh but, I figure if the dev can't be even be bothered to copy+paste a few names then they've been lazy with the rest of their game's development too.

That said, no one's perfect and a credit list can get really long! There's no shame in forgetting something once in awhile, it's easy to fix. There's some really common mistakes I see though:

1. Not crediting in full. People tend to read the first name and ignore all others, like the EBS just being credited as Luka, or a tileset being credited to a single compiler on DA who "credits every artist" not under the work but in a separate journal list that predates the tileset post by 3 years *huffs*
2. Not crediting the engine/kit you're using. Relic is pretty Essentials heavy, and I know we're way more dev focused than player focused but, there's people outside of the forum who want to play your game! And players might not know the difference between PDSK and a ROM hack, but they do care about it when their emulator isn't running the game.
3. Assuming that anything in another game is free to take, if you credit it. It's not free without permission! This one's well known between Relic devs, but newbie devs to the community will pretty commonly rip assets from Insurgence their favorite fan game and credit them just because they don't know better. There's also some unfortunate gray areas when your game isn't encrypted, a lot of people will see that as permission granted to use.

As for how credits should look, I wish more people would include links! I try to hyperlink directly to the resource, on all my game threads at least, but usually keep the credits included with the game just as a organized list. I'd shout from the rooftops all the people who's resources made my game possible, I wouldn't be getting anywhere without them! Plus I want my credits list to empower other devs to use the same great stuff!
I love when people have nice organized categories for their credits too, but I've learned to begrudgingly accept the credits that are literally just a list of 47 names without context; at least if they bothered to spell my name right even when I have no idea what work of mine they used. Honestly this is more of a personal problem but uhm, just crediting my name without context makes it pretty unclear what resource was actually used. Could be UI, tiles, sprites, or maybe the dev is just one of those cute types who thank any tutorial makers with a credit.

Nobody reads the actual credit section on resources they just credit the username that posted it aaaaaa​

 

[Maruno]

I think the credits should be separated into sections for different aspects of the game, e.g. various kinds of graphics, music, story, coding, mapping, etc. I think it's also worth making a distinction between public resources and work done specifically for that game. The same person can be credited multiple times if they've done/provided stuff that would go under multiple sections.

The in-game credits may not be super detailed when it comes to explaining what each person has contributed, but you can (should) also make a Credits.txt file that's distributed as part of the game which goes into more detail (e.g. which public resources were used, with links to them).

Also credit the engine you're using. Usually it's Essentials, but it may be something different. For something as important as the game engine, I think it should also have a splash screen for it (one of the images that appears and disappears right at the start of the game before the title screen). This applies to both Essentials (or whatever bundle of code you're using) and RPG Maker XP (or Godot or whatever other software you're using). How often have you seen other games claiming "Made with the Unreal Engine" or "Made in Unity"? Same thing.

 

[ranko]

Ahhh, I feel a tad guilty for not taking credits as seriously as everyone else in this thread. well, i definitely wanted to say something in regards to credits at least

- I always try to throw in the names of the artists/resource I credit from the moment i use them

- while I haven't done direct links (i'm definitely going to be doing it from now on and idk why the idea hasn't come to me until now) i always make sure that if I can't hit up google and find the exact resource and name right away with a simple search (Name + resource), I don't use it.

i had this problem a few times looking for resources for the game jam and even some in the resources for other game jam entries where I couldn't actually search up the name of the person and find the resource, and it felt kind of cheap to use it, so I ended up having to make my own version of them from scratch.

but uh, with this updated knowledge:

• Which is preferable- a credits sequence at the end, or a document inside your files with credits? Or both?

I think a credits document should be just about mandatory, and if not, a list in your thread. a Credits Sequence at the end is hard to keep track of and its mostly just for the flavor of a credits sequence than a proper sequence of credits.

• Do you as a player pay attention to credit sequences? Are they worthwhile even if you don't?

I look at it, but with so many names, I usually don't remember what catches my eye. I absolutely think they're worthwhile of course. I think they're a neat way to wrap up your game, but you should definitely have a static credits list somewhere close the game itself (thread, .txt, etc)

• Should you link to a user's profile/asset, or just list their username?

You should absolutely link for sure, but a listed username also helps just in case a link breaks or something. Deviantart pages die out all the time, so if it doesn't work, they at least can track it down on Pokecommunity, RC, etc.

• How specific should your credits be? For example, should you specify who did the tiles, who did the trainer sprites, and who did the UI, or credit them all as Graphics? If you used Marin's fastforward, footsteps, and shadows, would you list each function, or just credit Marin with "scripts"?

i definitely think you should be as specific as possible and to the best of your knowledge. The more organized the credits are, the better. I feel it gives respect to the person you're using the resource from if you make sure that you people know "this is what i used, this is who made it." and if its hard to track down the person on most commonly searched areas (google, youtube, deviantart, Public Game Resource etc), showing off where you found the resource is the best thing you can do. in my last jam, while the credits could be better, i tried to include every moniker they used i could find on the internet before using the resource with correct capitalization. If the person was easy to find, i usually didn't go too indepth on where I got it (princess phoenix is really easy to find for example). if it was an incredibly obscure artist/place, i post where i found it.

I feel kinda awful writing all this out knowing my credits are actually very very far from perfect, but I definitely want to change that from now on.